What is meant by 16x9 Squeeze???

Discussion in 'Displays' started by jeff lam, Apr 15, 2002.

  1. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    Hear about this feature all the time but don't really know what it does or what it's for. Is it used for 4x3 tv's or 16x9 tv's? Sorry if it's a basic question but I'm just now getting into the HDTV and 16x9 thing now that it's somewhat affordable and am trying to learn as much as possible about them before I purchase a 16x9 HDTV.
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    It's used for a 4x3 display when displaying anamorphic widescreen material.

    The "squeeze" takes all the available rastering (aka lines of resolution) and puts them into the 16:9 viewing area.

    Regards,
     
  3. SteveK

    SteveK Supporting Actor

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    Jeff - As John explained, the 16x9 squeeze takes all the available lines of resolution available on your 4x3 television and squeezes them into a 16x9 frame. Televisions vary in their ability to do the squeeze; some do it automatically (some of the Sony Wega models), on some you have to manually select it from a menu (other Sony models) to having to go into the service menu each time you want to do it. So it can be anywhere from automatic to a pain the a** (and perhaps even impossible on some televisions) to access the 16x9 squeeze.

    If you do have the 16x9 function available, it really makes a big difference in the picture quality. Not only do you not have to worry about anamorphic downconversion effects from your DVD player, you also get about a 25% increase in picture quality. The lines of resolution are closer together, so the picture quality is better. I'm sure that somebody can explain it better than I can, but I can assure you that it is a feature worth looking for.

    Enjoy!

    Steve K.
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    It's not the available lines of resolution but the actual number of scanning lines that is squeezed. The raster is collapsed into a 16:9 window, with the remaining space simply being dead.

    As has been stated here, with the lines closer together it presents a smoother image. And you can output directly to 16:9 when playing 16:9-encoded DVDs.
     
  5. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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  6. Richard Travale

    Richard Travale Producer

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    Check this link out. It explains everything very well.
     
  7. Roberto Carlo

    Roberto Carlo Second Unit

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    Thanks. That link was very useful. I've had a DVD player for nearly five years and, until just now, I had never been able to see the difference that anamorphic can make. I knew the theory, but now I see why aficionadoos are so inistent on this feature. Between this and progressive scan, the difference must really be striking. Enough to justify the money, no? (Assuming you can afford it, of course.)
     
  8. Roberto Carlo

    Roberto Carlo Second Unit

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    This thread prompts me to ask: If, with anamorphic squeeze, the full 480 lines of resolution are being used, does it follow that a 2:35 picture will look better than a 1:85 or 1:66 one? I ask because it seems that those lines of resolution are being "spread" over a smaller area. I'm drawing an analogy to the way a smaller television will seem, subjectively at least, to look "better" than a larger set showing the same picture.
     
  9. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I see, so it actually uses all the scan lines of a 4x3 set except put them in a smaller viewing area(16x9) instead of not using the lines above and below the 16x9 image??? is that correct?
     
  10. Chuck C

    Chuck C Cinematographer

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  11. Chuck C

    Chuck C Cinematographer

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  12. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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  13. Don_Houle

    Don_Houle Stunt Coordinator

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    Will,
    I own a JVC 32" 32D302 - that's the one without PIP (I guess I am turning into the unofficial JVC D-series advocate!). The raster adjustment is made from the Service Menu.
    I believe you will need to turn off the squeeze mode whenever you're watching a non-anamorphic DVD. Also, one thing to remember is to make sure that you set your DVD player's monitor type setting to "wide" or "16:9" to ensure that it sends the "unsqueezed" output to your TV.
    Check out this thread for more information about accessing the service menu. There's also a great page here that explains more about adjusting JVC sets like the 32D302 for optimum performance (although I haven't followed the directions for fixing the red-push via the service menu).
    Good luck and enjoy!
     
  14. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Does anyone list whether or not a certain TV does the squeeze? I've looked at the spec pages at a few different websites but I haven't - yet - seen anything that says "squeeze=yes/no".

    Would this feature be listed under some other name (line doubler?) Or is it supposed to be unofficial?
     
  15. Jeremy Engel

    Jeremy Engel Extra

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    It wouldn't be called a line doubler. On my set it is called 16X9 enhanced mode.

    What set are you wondering about?
     
  16. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    He is wondering if there is a clearly identifiable term in the sales literature that indicates if a given TV can perform this function. There isn't a term, though. The literature will simply call it a "16:9-enhanced mode."
     
  17. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    For the Sony 43HT20, I see it listed as "Enhanced Mode (V-Compression)" and "16:9 Enhanced viewing mode for HDTV and anamorphic DVDs" as Jack mentioned.

    Under the Toshiba 43H71, I see "New 16:9 Modes (1080i Vertical Compression and 810i Letterbox)" which I assume is also the same thing, right?

    In other words, it's not officially listed as the "squeeze."

    But since it is, I assume, listed under a different name for those two sets, would that mean it can be done without going into the service menu? (That kind of makes me nervous.)
     
  18. rodney wiley

    rodney wiley Second Unit

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    Im really kinda lost here. I know different dvd are in different ratios. on my 4:3 the all appear as "wide-screen" From what I understand there is a difference. Some dvd the black bars are just dead space and some the picture actually has the black bars in it. Does that make sense? which ratio is what? Help!!
     
  19. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    It's like this: Even when you collapse the raster into a 16:9 window--which translates to a 1.78:1 aspect ratio--films with wider aspect ratios will still be sandwiched horizontally by black bars--a 2.35:1 image is not as tall as the 1.78:1 window. Take this to an extreme and pop in, say, the Ben-Hur DVD. That film has a 2.55:1 aspect ratio. So the black bars within the 16:9 window will be even larger.

    Now, bear in mind this: If you can see the "inner" bars, you are in all likelihood overdriving your display. Lower the White and Black levels appropriately, and the "inner" black bars will merge seamlessly with the "outer" black bars.

    Hope this helps.
     
  20. Tom Weeks

    Tom Weeks Stunt Coordinator

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    I moved my bedroom 27in. Wega downstairs when my 36in. was in the shop. I played a dvd and used the 16 x 9 squeeze feature. I was sort of put off by how large the black lines were. It seemed like the actual picture was kind of squat (compressed). Is this the way it should look or was I doing something wrong?
     

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