What is it with men in minivans and 4-cylinder cars? (1 Viewer)

[Todd Hochard]

Calling someone a ricer because he believes in the importance of a good power to weight ratio is crazy.

No kidding. For instance, the Z06 has a good power-weight ratio.
There are plenty of slow V8s out there. Just about anything from the late 70s, for instance. The late 90s Mustang GTs with the 215hp 4.6, too.

Todd

 

[Lance Nichols]

Hey, four bangers can rip as good as, or better then a V8. Application is all part of the fun too. Personally, 1/4 mile stuff, I LOVE a good, big Dodge Hemi V8. SOLO racing, I would though something quick, nimble and light at the course. Smaller engine spins faster....

I remember back when Dodge was introducing the world to it's 4 banger FWD sports cars. "Experts" were saying they wouldn't compete. Those Shelby chargers sure showed some people a thing or two, and that was a car based on the old K-car platform. Not one know for it's overall robustness.

I owned a 1985 Dodge (sorry CHRYSLER in Canada) Daytona Turbo I. I always used to laugh at the mustangs and firebirds that would try to street light with me. Once that turbo spooled you really dug in, and thanks to the FWD, you had a good patch of traction, if you knew how to drive it. Even better was hill climbing in Jasper or Banff, catching some guy weazing along trying to get up the hill, tap.. Turbo would spool, and man you had kick again. If you layed off the Turbo, you got good mileage too. Damn I miss that car. Sold it to get my Fargo (a 1949 1/2 ton). With it's 82HP flat six, you were not going to win any races, but I never got stuck, was able to pull just about anything, and the thing was running a bone stock original motor, except for replacement wiring harness, not bad for a 50 year old truck.

Oh, back to the 4 bangers, did you know, when the Neon came out (and thanks to the SRT is again) it was Daimler-Chrysler's second quickest vehicle? Only the Viper was /is quicker. (quicker refering to 0-60 and 1/4 mile times) The viper tops out a lot higher then the Neon....

Will be sad to see them go in '05.

 

[Mike__D]

Will be sad to see them go in '05

What's gone in '05?? Not the Viper and Neon SRT-4? If so, provide me with some info, as this is news to me.

Mike D.

 

[DarrenH]

Ok, so, seems to be not only a bucnh of A/V junkies here, but also more than a few motor heads.

Rather than Ricer-slam (which I do my total fair share of) or trash mini-van drivers (found the worst driver ever, old guy with hat in a minivan with New Jeresy handicapped plates) I'd like to put forth a philosophical question I have thought about before.

People in this thread (and everyone for that matter) usues the term "sports car" What is your defintion of what a sports car is? There are some cars that pretty much everyone can agree is a sports car (like who would deny a Vette is) but other cars fall into a grey area.

Thoughts?

 

[Scott L]

Something with good handling and a 14sec 1/4 mile time at most.

 

[DarrenH]

The good handling I will agree with, however, I'm not sure I agree with the 1/4 time. Why not 12 seconds? Or 15? Also, does appearance have a part at all?

Just trying to play devil's advocate here, not trying to put down any ideas...

 

[Philip_G]

by appearance an eclipse is a sports car, or a toyota celica. Or *flame suit on* the S2000
But by the above standards, a WRX is, and I'd agree with that. Looks don't mean anything if you handle like a buick.

Is an M3 or audi S4 less of a sports car because they don't look like them? I think most V8's would leave sore if they tangled with an S4

 

[DarrenH]

Ah, the M3 and S4, glad someone brought these up. I will not deny these are both sports cars. Now, do you still consider a 325 and an A4 1.8T or 2.8 sports cars? And a Mustang GT or Camaro Z28 would probably be sports cars to most, but what about the V6 versions of these cars (i.e. 1998 Camaro Z28 had around 315hp as comared to a V6 with 200hp).

 

[Philip_G]

oh crap, I forgot the best sports car of all, the civic Si

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Ever since I bought it, I notice whenever I take off at an intersection...and the person next to me is a man in a minivan or a compact car...he will always floor it and try to cut me off. What is up with that?

We do it because we're dicks.

***Proudly drives a Chrysler PT Cruiser***

P.S. You drive too slow.

 

[Mike__D]

What is your defintion of what a sports car is?

I think there is a distinction between a sports car, and a performance car. Sports car are typicaly 2 seaters, with good power to weight ratio, excellent handling, manual tranny available and are the least bit practical. Examples are the Vette, 350Z, Miata, & Porsche Boxster to name a few.

Performance cars encompasses a wider range. They have rear seats, strong motors, decent handling, and have some form of practicality. Examples are Mustang GT & Cobra, Infinity G35 Coupe, the soon to be releases Pontiac GTO, the old T-Bird SC, and more.

Then we have sports sedans. Their best characteristic is their sports car like handling with the practicality of a 4 door, everyday people hauler. Optionally, they can have powerful motors. Examples are the BMW 3 series, A4 (& S4), Caddy CTS, G35 sedan, IS300, WRX, etc...

Mike D.

 

[DaveHo]

Currently, I'm driving a 97 Camaro SS. Pretty much stock except for a catback. High 13 sec 1/4 mi times and a fairly decent autoX car. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best driver in the world. One thing going to the strip & doing autoX has taught me is to never judge a book by it's cover. Some of the slowest looking cars can turn out to be pretty impressive.

Some other cars I've got some seat time in are an S2000, WRX, and a Corvette Z06. Courtesy of my somehat wealthy bother-in-law who is always searching for that perfect car. Also some older muscle including an AMX. Handles like crap, but still fun to drive.

Currently I'm anxiously awaiting the WRX STI. If it can improve on the WRX like I think, it'll be a great car.

-Dave

 

[Todd Hochard]

If the requirements to qualify for a sports car were 12sec 1/4 times, there would only be a handful of factory cars that qualify.
The 14sec time is reasonable, as this is the point that a car really starts to feel quick, IMO.

Mike D's explanation seems reasonable, but doesn't the 350Z have a back seat?

Todd

 

[CharlesD]

Spoken like a true ricer. So what are you actually driving?

DaveHo I have a WRX with no exterior mods whatsoever so lay off the "ricer" crap OK? A 4000lb 215hp Mustang is no match for a modded WRX (or a stock one for that matter) even if the Mustang does has the magic number of cylinders.

I'd agree with Mike__D about the sports car definition. 1/4 mile times don't enter into the equation.

 

[Jared_B]

Mike D's explanation seems reasonable, but doesn't the 350Z have a back seat?

Nope. But its sister, the G35 Coupe, does.

Mike_D is on the right track. I'd call a Miata a sports car, simply because: It's small, nimble, reasonably quick, two-seater, manual tranny, etc. It does not have a sub-14 second 1/4 mile time though. It will, however, kick ass on an autocross course (in capable hands, of course). I've seen e46 M3s and Vettes having trouble keeping up with one guy in a Miata.

Especially today, the lines between sports cars, sports sedans, and performance cars are blurring. The 330i is unmistakably a sports sedan, but what is the M3? It has 333 HP, 1/4 miles times around 13 seconds, and it handles extremely well. It also has heated seats, leather, moonroof, etc. It's definitely much more than just a sports sedan, but is it a sports car? Should we call it a luxury sports car?

The 350Z is pretty easily lumped into the sports car category. But what about the G35c, which shares many of the same components, yet has more luxury features and a back seat? In Car & Driver's current issue, their test G35c matched or beat their last 350Z in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Should we call the G35c a a luxury sports car as well, even though the M3 spanks it in performance?

My whole point is, you can't easily classify all of the different vehicles on the market. Some fit perfectly into a category, others do not. There are no hard rules like 1/4-mile time or number of doors that can be used.

 

[Dean Cooper]

Actually, you sports car drivers have no idea how bad it can get. Try driving something like this:

EVERYONE has to show you how fast they can go when they end up beside you in something like this. It’s really quite amazing to watch. Funny thing is when I get to the point where I'm driving one of my rods I've put so much time in to the thing I wouldn't even dream of dragging someone on the street.

 

[Jason Merrick]

The 2004 Audi S4 Sedan and Avant

Audi proudly introduces a tandem of new S4s. S, of course, stands for Sport--and emphatically so. Equipped with a newly designed 4.2-liter, V8 engine pumping out 340 horsepower, the six-speed manual or six-speed Tiptronic® automatic S4 delivers without hesitation. Factor in road-gripping quattro® all-wheel drive, standard xenon headlights, and 18" Avus wheels, and the new S4 offers a superior ride in all conditions. Available in North America in Summer, 2003.

I want one!

 

[PrinzII]

Anyone remember the Omni GLH or the original Dodge Daytona Turbo Z? Quad 4? In short, there are always going to be 4 bangers that will give most 6s and some 8s grief. In fact, there is a link circulating about a minivan with a turbo 4 that runs 12s in the 1/4 mile. However, those are, as so eloquently stated, in the minority.

With that said, I drive a '02 Maxima (255 hp V6) and some peeps in certain cars, SUVs and "Mommy Wagons (minivans)" love to "try me" and then wind up seeing taillights.

 

[Philip_G]

Not sure if you are saying the S4 is a four cylinder... but if so, it's not.

I'm well aware of that. The turbocharged S4 is more desireable than the N/A, much more tuneable. It's sad to see them change it.

 

[Josh Lowe]

Power to weight ratio - very important

HP to displacement ratio - lame comparison typically used by yuppies and ricers.

And these kinds of car threads on a home theater forum are nearly as painful to read as home theater threads are on car forums.