What is DVD-A and SACD

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mark_E_Smith, Apr 10, 2002.

  1. Mark_E_Smith

    Mark_E_Smith Second Unit

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    I have been out of the loop on audio stuff so bear with me. What is this DVD-A and can you use a regular DVD play with the digital outs to a 5.1 HT receiver. Is the DVD-A the predominate format or is the SACD winning out. It seems you have to use a special cd player for these. point me to some info or if you can explain it to me I have an Onkyo 878 Receiver with a 5.1 speaker system set up in my livingroom. Sso I think I have the equipment just need to know which system and what they do
     
  2. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Screenwriter

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    DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD are new disc formats that use discs of similar size, shape, and construction to CDs and DVDs.

    They provide for either stereo or optional discrete 5.1-channel surround sound. Proponents claim that both systems provide higher sound quality than CD. A big drawback of both formats is copy prevention junk that goes way beyond the stuff envisioned in the AHRA. This may include audible watermarking, though other people have said that so far, SACDs have relied solely on "digital watermarks" (which are not supposed to affect the audio data at all).

    You cannot play the DVD-Audio tracks of a DVD-Audio disc on a regular DVD-Video only player. Nor can you play the SACD layer of a SACD disc on a regular DVD or CD player.

    A DVD-Audio disc may have DVD-Video information in addition to DVD-Audio information (so that DVD-Video players can play something). A SACD disc may have a second CD-compatible layer, though so far many Sony discs don't.

    In both cases, you must connect the deck and receiver using six analog cables. This is partly due to a lack of technical standards (SPDIF probably wasn't designed with multiple channels and high bitrates in mind) - but mostly due to copy prevention paranoia.

    Eventually there may be a digital interconnect.
     
  3. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Thomas,

    Good basic explanation. To date, I know of no Sony titles that are hybrids. Have you run across any?

    Regards,
     
  4. David Head

    David Head Second Unit

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    John,
    Here the list of SACD releases at Digital Eyes which lists whether the disc is SACD Stereo, SACD Multichannel or SACD Hybrid. There are some hybrid discs on the list.
    The DVD-A list at Digital Eyes is here.
    NOTE: I'm not affiliated in any way with Digital Eyes. I hope these links don't violate any forum rules, but I haven't been able to find another place that lists all the releases for both formats.
    David
     
  5. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    David, you will find that no Sony SACDs are hybrid discs.

    You did not violate any rules that I know of by posting the Digital Eyes links.
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Thomas said:

     
  7. David Head

    David Head Second Unit

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    Thanks Keith. I wasn't sure how to tell which releases were from Sony and didn't have time this morning to look into it...

    David
     
  8. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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  9. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Keith,
    The cable for Denon Link is the highly exotic Cat 5 networking cable terminated with even rarer RJ-45s [​IMG]
    It's only a matter of time before someone creates a "super deluxe mega DenonLink cable", which will have OCC (Ono continuous cast) Silver wiring, teflon insulation and a special type of RJ-45 connector, with gold plated OFC copper, and a non-static body to reduce data transmission errors. Note: This was a joke people [​IMG]
    As an aside, MSB uses a trio of RJ-45 terminated Cat 5 cabling for their MSB Network for DVD-A digital transmission as well.
    Meridian uses good old S/PDIF for MHR (Meridian High Resolution) digital transfer.
    Regards,
     
  10. Mark_E_Smith

    Mark_E_Smith Second Unit

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    I think I get it now. I dont want to start a flame, it seams that:

    1 all DVD-As are at least 5.1

    2 most SACDs are stereo with a few multi channel most of them I am not interested in.

    I only have 1 set of 5.1 inputs so it sounds like I need to get a DVD-A first and since the SACDs are mostly in stereo. Does the SACD use the regular L-R audio rca inputs?

    Any recomendations on equipment for both? Dont want to spend a fortune but dont want a POS. Do any do both(probably asking to much) Any progressive scan? I dont need one yet but might consider as I might go HD in the next year
     
  11. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    I bought the JVC 70BK player and have had no problems with anything yet, price was $225 shipped.
     
  12. David Head

    David Head Second Unit

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    Thanks Tony. I know about that site, but it only has a complete list of DVD-A titles and not one for SACD (unless I'm missing it).

    David
     
  13. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Mark,

    DVD-A has no required mix. You could have a mono, stereo etc, etc, disc.

    That being said, what's being delivered to consumers is a multi-channel mix, and nearly always, a stereo mix as well.

    Regards,
     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mark, although your receiver only has one set of 5.1-channel inputs, you can have both DVD-Audio and multi-channel SACD players. Radio Shack makes an A/V switch box for $15, and with two of them, you can switch between multi-channel DVD-Audio and SACD. I use them and notice no degradation in sound quality. You connect both players to the switch boxes and connect the switch boxes to your receiver. The part number for this switch box is 15-1952. Search this board for '15-1952' for more information on how to use these switch boxes.

    Alternatively, you can get the Pioneer Elite DV-47A, which plays DVD-Audio discs and multi-channel SACDs. It runs $800-1000, and reviews I have read have been mixed.

    Regarding stereo SACD, yes, you can use stereo analog inputs on your receiver. All Sony multi-channel SACD players have stereo analog outputs in addition to 5.1-channel outputs. Also, you can use stereo analog inputs on your receiver for stereo DVD-Audio. However, you need a receiver or pre/pro with analog bypass to take advantage of these high-resolution formats.

    I use both the stereo and 5.1-channel outputs on my DVD-Audio and multi-channel SACD players since I have separate stereo and home-theater systems in one room. I run RCA cables from the stereo analog outputs to the stereo system for playback of stereo DVD-Audio and SACD and only use the home-theater system for multi-channel music.

    As for suggestions for DVD-Audio and SACD players, let us know your budget.
     
  15. Mark_E_Smith

    Mark_E_Smith Second Unit

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    More questions;
    Thanks for all your input so far. I stopped by CC and BB today and snooped around. The CC did not have any DVD-A disks for sale, they did have a few SACDs. So looked at what they had for players. The only thing for SACD was 3 Sony models ranging from $179 to $299 2 models had DVD-V also. 1 Panasonic DVD-A $230. The salesman said he thought the SACD would end up pushing DVD-A out.(from the people who brought DVIX)Frankly it sounds like I may have to have both as my favorite artists are split by the format.[​IMG] So over at BB I found the oposite very few SACDs the same 3 sony players within pennies of CC, but on the DVD-A they had 4 DVD-A players and over 150 DVD-As for sale.[​IMG] I saw the Toshiba 4700 for $239 looks good and it is a PS DVD player for future expansion.(I dont have a HDTV)I am real tempted to get this one and wait to see if SACD takes off, it being a Sony venture I dont trust them.(betamax)My luck it will be the DVD-A that tanks though. I wish I could listen to these before I buy, but they have them hooked up to cheesy sound systems.
    KeithH Thanks for the suggestion I had forgot about using 2 switchs. I already use the big brother of that switch for my distribution system to the bedroom. I have 3 DirecTiVos and a Aiwa DVD player runnig throught the RS IR switchable 2X4 A/V switch going to a RS leapfrog type distribution. I can watch any of the 3 DTiVos or the DVD player and control them from the bedroom.
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mark, if you can swing it, I suggest you get a DVD-Audio player, which will, of course, play DVD movies, and an SACD player for SACDs and CDs. Regarding DVD-Audio players, you will see the following at Best Buy and/or Circuit City:
    * Toshiba SD-4700: This is a single-disc, progressive-scan player that typically sells for $250. I've read mixed reviews of this player. One thing to note is that Toshiba players usually get low marks for the user interface with DVD-Audio discs. It seems that most every function is buried in a menu somewhere as opposed to being easily accessed via the remote.
    * JVC XV-SA75GD: Also a single-disc, progressive-scan model. It sells for around $230, and the chassis is gold. Note that it also available in black as the XV-SA70BK from certain mail-order dealers (e.g., Crutchfield). Build quality for this player is better than what I have seen from many other JVC DVD players. It gets high marks on the video side.
    * JVC XV-SA95GD: This is a seven-disc carousel model with progressive-scan. Best Buy has it these days for $300-330. The chassis is gold, but it is also available in black as the XV-SA90BK. In my opinion, the carousel mechanism is suspect, so I wouldn't bother with this player.
    * Panasonic DVD-RA60: This is a single-disc, interlaced player. It is available in black or silver, and I've seen the black model at Circuit City for $200. Best Buy does not carry the player in the stores, though I've seen it on their web site. Crutchfield has it in silver for $200. Build quality is very solid, but remember that it is an interlaced player. Also, it has no coaxial digital output. Panasonic players have a very good interface with DVD-Audio discs.
    If you were to get one of these DVD-Audio players, you could then get the Sony SCD-CE775 five-disc carousel SACD/CD changer for around $200 at Best Buy or Circuit City. I see no reason to get one of the Sony DVD/SACD models if you are going to get a DVD-Audio player. The 'CE775 is a nice player for the money.
    Once you were to get a DVD-Audio and SACD player, you could run them through the aforementioned Radio Shack A/V switch boxes. I know you are questioning the future of DVD-Audio and SACD, but look at it this way. A DVD-Audio player for under $300 would play your DVD movies, even with progressive-scan output if you so desire. The Sony 'CE775 for $200 or less would function as your CD changer. The high-resolution audio formats are added features to functional components. Given the sound quality of DVD-Audio and SACD, those are nice add-ons. [​IMG]
     
  17. Mark_E_Smith

    Mark_E_Smith Second Unit

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    Well thats my thinking now, good point on the Sony not needing DVD. I do require a coax conection as all of my opticals are taken by the DTiVos. Which begs another question if you have the direct multichannel hooked up do you need to hook up the DD coax/optical for DVD-V play?
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mark, many DVD-Audio players have on-board Dolby Digital and DTS decoders. Check particular models you are interested in to be sure. If the player has Dolby Digital and DTS decoders built in, then you don't need to use the digital output. You would be using the 5.1-channel outputs on the player for DVD-Audio anyway, so you could use them for movies too. However, it is nice to have the flexibility of using the Dolby Digital and DTS decoders in your receiver, as they might be better than the ones on the player. I'm not sure if any of the budget DVD-Audio players have a coaxial digital output. It's worth looking into.
     
  19. Mark_E_Smith

    Mark_E_Smith Second Unit

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    The Tosiba had both optical and coax
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mark, O.K. Thanks for the info.
     

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