What is all that power for.Must be more than volume

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Richard_s, Apr 18, 2002.

  1. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Something I have been wondering. Many have strongly recommended that I get the Denon 1802 (80w/ch) rather than the 1602 (70w/ch) and for good reason I am sure. Even though the price difference is only $60 all this does is give me 10W more per channel and Binding posts for channel B speakers. Is it worth the difference or a waste of money?

    I am not questioning that more power isn't better but once one has enough to go well beyond what their ears can take what else does the power get you (more reliability, Lower distortion, lower background noise???).

    What I thought:

    The power headspace above normal (lets say reference level) is to handle the HT/Music sounds and peak effects that can take one up to I think I read 121 db. Now for systems that have a powered subwoofer the receiver amplifier is only driving the speakers above the crossover (80hz to 100hz) which are not the frequencies that require the power I thought. I thought the power is demanded by the Low frequencies (redirected bass +LFE) that are now handled by the subwoofer (all speakers set to small).

    There probably is no short answer to this but I am interested in why so much power ( I can see paying for more features). I dont want to be penny wise and pound foolish but I don't understand the quest for more power.
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Richard,

    The real world output level difference between 80w and 70w is negligible (1dB at the most).

    Given that modest difference, there's not much in final output at full power.

    What features besides the ones you mentioned does the 1802 have over the 1602?

    For $60, I'd probably pay for the extra features myself, but that's your decision.

    Regards,
     
  3. Mike Veroukis

    Mike Veroukis Second Unit

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    What kind of speakers are you driving? Some are more pwoer hungry then others. You never want to underpower a speaker as that may end up clipping which can cause speaker damage. Its better to have more power just to be on the safe side. That's my opinion, I'm sure the experts will chime in any time now and set us all straight. [​IMG]
    - Mike
     
  4. Ted Kim

    Ted Kim Stunt Coordinator

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    There are other considerations besides just the output power. The size and output and quality of the power transformer usually goes for the higher power receivers in a manufacturers lineup. That translates into greater ability to really drive a loudspeaker. The more expensive receivers get the more expensive parts, and hence usually add more than just wattage but greater refinement to the sound. So hopefully, you are getting more than just the features but also better quality. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.
     
  5. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Thanks:
    I came across this link in my research. Is it just salesmanship or do you think it is valid. Kind of hit home when they talked about the NSP1 and the 1602. They feel the 1802 is superior can that be? I looked at both at tweeter and the only feature difference is that the B speaker channel has binding posts rather than spring clips, both have binding posts for the A speakers. The 10W/ch is the only other feature difference. Possibly the build quality is better no way for me to tell but possible.
    http://www.cheaphometheater.com/Denon%201602.htm
    I have JBL N26 mains, N-center and will add N24 rears soon (using my old Bose model 100's for now but they have to go).
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If the difference is only $60, then I would say it is foolish NOT to get the the 1802. Personally, I would go no less than the 2802, but that's just me.

    Although the 10wpc will only add negligible volume to what you hear, the receiver will work less to provide that same sound level, as you suspected. The difference will be subtle, but I think it would be noticable more as a bit more clarity. Better to have more power than you think you need, than to have too little. You are thinking in terms of the speakers you have (or will have) NOW, but what about when the upgrade bug comes around next time...
     
  7. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    John:
    good points. here is the review from the same place as the link I supplied above they tend to agree with what you say
    http://www.cheaphometheater.com/Denon%201802.htm
    Doubt I can go for the 2802 ($190 more) but I will take a look at this unit. At least for future the 1802 does have main and center pre outs but no preouts for the rears. The 2802 has all 5 preouts.
    The place someone recommended to buy from is:
    http://www.reliableaudiovideo.com/denonreceiver.html
    Seems like they warranty the unit themselves. Can save a bundle buying from them but not sure they are a good place to deal with. They do have good prices and reasonable shipping. Delivered the 1802 is $120 cheaper than if I buy from an authorized dealer like crutchfield or Tweeter.
    Anyone have experience with the above e-tailer (reliableaudiovideo) would appreciate the information
     
  8. Westly T

    Westly T Second Unit

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    Better power supply, more head room?
     
  9. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Thanks. I think I will go with the Denon 1802 now I just have to find a good price at a respected e-tailer.
    Any recommendations for an e-tailer or know anything about the one I posted above
    RANT ON:
    My only problem with Denon is they are price fixing through their warranty. Unfortunately for me it appears that they have the best product for the money with DPL II. It is possible that their restriction is not valid in MA we have very strong consumer protection laws but I don't want to find out.
    RANT OFF
    I need a place to buy that discounts and is reputable in honoring their "self" warranty of the Denon.
     
  10. DarrinH

    DarrinH Second Unit

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    I am with you Richard_s. I am very close to purchasing a 2802 from this same retailer but have heard nothing about them. E-mail me when you find out something, or if you e-mail me now I will send you info once I hear something about reliable. Luck to us both![​IMG]
     
  11. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    richard,

    try 6th avenue, they offer the denon 1802 for around 380 shipped i believe and the best part is that they are authorized. i don't have a link to their site right now but I am sure other ppl here know.
     
  12. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Konrad: Thanks
    I saw that but the 1801 does not have DPL II and also has no more power than the 1602. better off with the 1602 than the 1801. The 1801 is no match for the 1802.
    EDIT:
    I called the repair center listed on the Denon website as their local authorized service center. The first thing the guy said is that they dumped Denon for two reasons. 1)Denon was far too dificult to deal with and get parts for. They are very slow in reimbersement for warranty service. 2)The build quality is good but when it has to be repaired they are impossible to work on. He did say that the rate to repair the Denon 1802 is a flat $85 labor + parts. This does not sound good but maybe all of the companies have the same issue. Just passing this information on.
    Sounds like not only do you need to be careful where you buy the Denon but may need an extended warranty as well.
    Anyone know anything about the Yamaha HTR-5560 or the Onkyo TX-SR600 same list as the Denon 1802 and looks like more features. I have the JBL N26 mains n-center so that may be a factor.
     
  13. Brian Treinen

    Brian Treinen Stunt Coordinator

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    There has been a ton of debate here about Denon and authorized retailers. I picked up a 3802 for a GREAT price from 6th ave by calling them. http://www.6ave.com
    Another way to go would be get an amex blue card, buy from an authorized dealer and then price match down to your best internet deal. I actually did this too to shave off an extra few dollars from the price offered by 6th ave.
    From reading the reviews and personal experience I'd say it's a no brainer to go with the 1802 over the 1602. If you go 1602 you may save a couple bucks now but wouldn't it be worth that $60 NOT to think every time you watch a movie - Hmmm, I wonder how much better that 1802 would have been?!? Now, stepping up to the 2802 is another issue all together but you may try looking for a 982 online which should be exactly the same as the 2802 but possibly for a slightly lower price. Along that same line I beleive the 882 is the funtional equivalent of the 1802.
     
  14. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    richard,

    try calling 6th ave to negotiate a better price on the 1802. I know at least someone on this forum that received the 1802 for 380 shipped.

    btw, i mistakenly referred to the 1801 in my first reply to your post eventhough i meant the 1802. The problem is corrected now
     
  15. Jason Bell

    Jason Bell Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi I just bought an 1802 about 2 weeks ago. I'm very happy with it. The reason I bought it instead of the 1602 was because of the preamp for the front 3 speakers. I figured later on I could get into seperates slowly without needing a new receiver to. As far as buying it I got it for $429. I noticed all the dealers listed on Denons website quoted me the same price(except crutchfield they wouldnt budge) when I asked what was the best they could do for me without telling them what the other ones offered. Price fixing even when they act like they're giving you a deal[​IMG]. So if you ask the "authourized dealers" they meet you about halfway. I figured the $70 was worth it for the 2 year warranty. Hope I dont have to find out. Good luck.
     
  16. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    RE: Using AMEX Blue to pricematch.

    AMEX is discontinuing their best price policy effective 4/30/02. Anyone thinking about using it needs to get a move on.
     

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