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*What Hi*Fi?* (UK) reviews Denon AVR-1602, '1802, '2802, and '3802.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KeithH, Jun 9, 2002.

  1. Message #1 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    The July 2002 issue of What Hi*Fi? out of the UK has reviews of the Denon AVR-1602, '1802, '2802, and '3802. Some comparisons between the four receivers are made. For those members in the US, note that these are the only four Denon receivers available in the UK, so there is no mention of the '4802, '5800, or '5803. Denon offers the AVC-11SR and AVC-A1SE surround-sound amps without tuners in the UK, which I am guessing are the '4800 (or '4802) and '5800 minus tuners. There is mention in the article of a "back panel/DSP upgrade unit" for the 'A1SE called the KAVC-A1SE, which is why I assume the AVC-A1SE is the UK equivalent of the '5800 and not the '5803. Also, I know the 'A1SE has been available for quite awhile.
    Not surprisingly, the '3802 was rated the best of the four receivers (I also like the fact that the '3802 is available with a gold chassis in the UK). Otherwise, the '1602 garnered an excellent rating, and What Hi*Fi? said that the '1802 would really only be worth the extra money if you need a full set of pre-outs (six channels on the '1802 versus just a sub pre-out on the '1602). The '2802 was criticized for its performance with music. The ratings of the four receivers out of five stars are as follows:
    AVR-1602 (£350)
    Sound: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Build: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Facilities: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Verdict: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    AVR-1802 (£450)
    Sound: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Build: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Facilities: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Verdict: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    AVR-2802 (£650)
    Sound: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Build: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Facilities: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Verdict: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    AVR-3802 (£850)
    Sound: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Build: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Facilities: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Verdict: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Message #2 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,
    I have not seen this review, but disagree respectfully with some of their points regarding the 1602/1802. First off, I always find the disparity in reviews between the American mags and their British counterparts interesting. Most reviews in America say to go with the 1802 and forget the 1602 (Why would "What HI-fi?" give the 1802 one star less for sound than the 1602 anyway?). You get more power, pre-amp outs, and it's only 100.00 more (in fact, online the difference can be as little as 20.00, which IMHO, leaves zero reason to get the 1602). However, it does look as if all of their receivers received glowing reviews from "What Hi-Fi," who is known to be far more critical than their American counterparts. If you could even muster a three star rating from them, that would be pretty damn excellent - I've seen them give out far to many 1's in the past. Thanks for sharing this Keith. This review only reinforces my belief that Denon makes the best damn receivers currently on the planet.[​IMG]
    Reg
     
  3. Message #3 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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    Do you have a link to the magazine.
    I could only find the June 2002 issue on the web.
     
  4. Message #4 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Norman,

    Perhaps What Hi*Fi? waits awhile before putting the current issue on the web in the hopes of selling more copies on the newsstand. In any event, they do not put the entire issue online. Check Borders or Barnes and Noble in your area, as they usually carry the magazine. I got my copy at a Borders last night.


    Reggie,

    No problem. As I said to Norman, if you have a Borders or Barnes and Noble nearby, pick up the issue of What Hi*Fi?. You might find the review an interesting read. The rest of the issue is good too. What Hi*Fi? is one of my preferred audio mags.
     
  5. Message #5 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Yeah, that's a funny one. 5 stars for sound for the 1602 and 3802, but only 4 for the 1802 and 2802. Doesn't make sense in that the "core" of each receiver is probably exactly the same, they just add more stuff on for the higher costs models.

    I'm not as familiar with Denon, but I know this is the case with at least Yamaha and the 1200, 2200, and 3200 for example.
     
  6. Message #6 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Kevin, I can't say for sure, but What Hi*Fi? may not be evaluating audio quality of these receivers in an absolute sense. Sound per pound (£) may be an important factor. As I said, the article said that the only real reason they could see for getting the '1802 over the '1602 is if you need pre-outs for six channels. I may be reading into this too much, but it could be that their staff did not feel that the sound quality of the '1802 justified the extra £100 over the '1602.
     
  7. Message #7 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    Russell _T

    Russell _T Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Keith,
    I recently ordered a 1602, and when I compared it to the 1802, it seemed to me that the only advantage to the 1802 was the pre outs which I won't be needing. At least that reinforces my decision. The 1802 was also too tall to fit in my rack.
     
  8. Message #8 of 17 Jun 9, 2002
    Karl Erik Sylthe

    Karl Erik Sylthe Extra

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    In my opinion, What Hifi is one of the least serious mags available. Their equipment reviews are generally "left-hand" work, and more than other mags, they seek sensational headlines.
    In short, they know what the readers want to read, and they write it.

    In this particular case, their nonsense become evident by the fact that AVR 1802 doesn`t have pre-outs for all channels, only front L/R + sub.
    On the other hand, how could they know, only from studying those tiny pics of the back-face...
     
  9. Message #9 of 17 Jun 10, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Karl,

    Let me check the article again to make sure I got their point about the pre-outs on the '1802 correct. Maybe they did say that it only has four pre-outs. From What Hi*Fi?'s perspective, I suppose the lack of a full set of pre-outs could make for an even less compelling reason to get the '1802 over the '1602.

    I disagree with you about What Hi*Fi?. They don't simply publish what everyone wants to read in my opinion. I have read many reviews that have surprised me. Products that I thought would have been hailed were trashed and vice versa.


    Russell,

    No problem. I hope the '1602 works out for you.
     
  10. Message #10 of 17 Jun 10, 2002
    Drew Bethel

    Drew Bethel Screenwriter

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    I have the following issues with British mags like What-HiFi.

    - Reviews are prolific but are often too succinct. There is no way a mag like S&V can get through as many reviews as these guys.

    - Very few -if any - objective measurements are given. Ever look at one of their subwoofer reviews? Good luck finding SPLs.

    What I do like is that they can be brutally honest when reviewing a product.
     
  11. Message #11 of 17 Jun 10, 2002
    ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    My reasons for getting the 1802 over the 1602 were as follows:
    1)The 1802 has one extra optical input (VERY important to me).
    2)The pre-amp outs for the front stage.
    3)Slightly more power.
    4)I liked the larger chasis better, as it reminded me of the 3802 (which I couldn't afford at the time).
    Needless to say, I probably won't be needing the pre-amp outs as I will be upgrading to the upcoming 1803, or if they are announced at the same time, the new 3803.[​IMG]
    Here is what I would like to see in the 3803:
    -More coaxial inputs.
    -The Dolby headphone feature found on the 5803.
    -5.1 Circle Surround
    -More power never hurts.
    -updated DAC's (24/192 instead of 96).
    -If possible, TWO PAIR of analog inputs for DVD-A/SACD.
    -THX certification (afterall, the Onkyo 797 has it at this price point).
    -Improved remote.
    Reg
     
  12. Message #12 of 17 Jun 10, 2002
    Greg Haynes

    Greg Haynes Supporting Actor

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    Denon sure does make some damn good receivers! I don't think we'll hear much about the 3803 for at least another 3-4 months. By then who knows what new features will be available[​IMG] For the time being I am extremely satisfied with my 3802[​IMG]
     
  13. Message #13 of 17 Jun 10, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Drew, I agree that What Hi*Fi? should publish more measurements. About the only measurement I ever see is jitter in CD player shoot-outs.
     
  14. Message #14 of 17 Jun 11, 2002
    Haywood

    Haywood Stunt Coordinator

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    I have to agree with the review. I own a Denon 1602 and felt that there was really no reason to get the 1802. When doing side by side comparisons the difference in sound quality was not even noticeable.
    I had no need for the pre-outs and extra optical input so I went with the 1602. I used the extra money I saved and got a few DVD's. I feel that all the Denon units are top shelf and that each person should just buy the unit that fits there needs. Either way I feel you can't go wrong with Denon.
    Later Haywood [​IMG]
     
  15. Message #15 of 17 Jun 11, 2002
    Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  16. Message #16 of 17 Jun 11, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Marvin, here is what What Hi*Fi? said about the '2802 with music:

     
  17. Message #17 of 17 Jun 11, 2002
    KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    For those wondering about What Hi*Fi's statements about pre-outs on the '1802, you can see in the quote from the 'Conclusions' section in my previous post that What Hi*Fi? got it wrong. They claim throughout the article that the '1802 has a full set of pre-outs, when indeed it lacks pre-outs for the rear channels.
     
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