What do you think? Are dual-sided CD-Rs feasible?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KeithH, Dec 22, 2001.

  1. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    I thought it would be really cool if companies would release dual-sided CD-Rs, thereby increasing the density of a disc from 800 MB to 1600 MB. Of course, we would lose space for labeling, but so what? The manufacturers could give us some space at the center for labeling as is done with dual-sided DVDs. After we get dual-sided CD-Rs, we would, of course, have to have "Both-Side Play" CD players akin to LD players. Basically, you could put ten CDs in a carousel changer or up to 800 CDs in a megachanger. Kenwood recently released DVD megachangers with the both-side play feature, so the idea isn't far-fetched, in my opinion. Now, if you daisy-chain two both-side play CD megachangers, you could have access to as many as 1600 CDs! I'd like to see that. Dual-side CD-Rs probably wouldn't be too feasible for the car because they would be prone to serious fingerprints, but for the home at least, I think that would useful.
    Well, if we don't see dual-sided CD-Rs, maybe we'll see such technology with recordable SACD. [​IMG]
     
  2. Marc Rochkind

    Marc Rochkind Second Unit

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    I think dual-sided makes sense, but probably not with CDs, as they are at the end of their technological life. Very primitive compared to DVD and SACD. And, even DVD is old by now, although obviously still in its ascendency.

    This huge changer you are talking about, if it comes to pass, would probably be a DVD changer of some sort.

    Also, playing both sides of a disc involves a lot of other costs in the player, not to mention the difficulty of making a stable enough transport mechanism.
     
  3. Ryan Peddle

    Ryan Peddle Second Unit

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    I agree with the fact that CDs are on the lowest tier of disc medium. But CDR's are still a new technology. They are very popular and probably still haven't reached it's full potential. Dual sided CDRs is a great idea.
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Marc,

    No question that a both-side play CD changer would be quite large. A carousel design may not be practical, but as I said, Kenwood is making both-side play DVD megachangers. Of course, dual-sided DVDs are pretty common, but the idea could probably be extended to CD-Rs. As for DVD-Audio and SACD, they are great formats and I have bought into both, but I think the CD will be the music standard for a long time to come. By the way, the Hootie & the Blowfish Cracked Rear View DVD-Audio release that came out this past week is dual-sided. The Advanced Resolution stereo track is one side and the Advanced Resolution surround-sound track is on the other. I have not yet seen a dual-sided SACD.

    I think a main problem with my idea is that it is likely that no hardware manufacturers would invest in developing both-side play CD changers just for dual-sided CD-Rs. Record labels would have to release dual-sided CDs. That probably would never happen. They would probably rather continue releasing two-disc sets since production is simple instead of releasing one dual-sided CD. Also, I doubt they would release two separate on one disc (one album per side). The dual-side concept would really work great for CD-Rs, however.

    Ryan,

    Thanks. Frankly. I'd buy dual-sided CD-Rs even if there were no players that supported both-side play. I like to makes mixes onto CD-Rs with my computer burner. With dual-sided disc, my mixes would obviously take up less space on the shelf.
     
  5. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    CD is a dead format in 2 years. DVD-R, at 10x the capacity, will replace it.
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Paul, that's all well and good, but there are a lot of CDs and CD players out there. There will still be a market for CD-Rs.
    O.K., so how about dual-sided DVD-Rs? [​IMG]
    By the way, I'd like to see an accepted standard for recordable DVDs before I buy in.
     
  7. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    Hmmm, not sure about availability of dual-sided DVD-Rs although if you need 10GB on a removable disc you must have a lot of material!

    As far as standards for recordable DVD, I think they're there already - there's DVD-R and DVD-RW.
     
  8. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Paul, I would like to see if one recordable format becomes the accepted standard before I buy a DVD recorder. Things need to get sorted out before I buy one.
     
  9. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

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    Dual sided CD-Rs are not possible. The data layer on a CD is deeper than on a DVD which makes them more scratch resistant, but also does not allow for dual sided disks.
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Craig, I thought about whether disc thickness would be an issue, but I figured if dual-sided discs could work with DVDs, it could work with CDs. I was not aware that a CD layer is deeper than a DVD layer. I know that the pits on a CD are larger than on a DVD, but I was not aware that the pits on a CD are deeper. I've never seen that in any descriptions of how CDs work. Interesting. I guess that would rule out dual-layer CDs too. Obviously, if a thicker disc would be required, it would never fly. I was proposing a variant of the CD format, but if the disc had to be thicker, we would be in some ways, talking about a new format. It could be difficult to design a player that could handle discs of two different thicknesses. Oh well.
     
  11. Kevin P

    Kevin P Screenwriter

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    A DVD is constructed from two thin polycarbonate discs with the data layer(s) sandwiched in the middle. This is what makes dual sided and/or dual layer DVDs possible.

    CDs, on the other hand, are a single, thicker polycarbonate disc, where the data layer is "stamped" into the TOP of the disc (but read from the bottom), then a protective lacquer is applied and then the label is printed. Therefore, dual sided CDs aren't possible.

    KJP
     
  12. Marty Neudel

    Marty Neudel Stunt Coordinator

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    >As far as standards for recordable DVD, I think they're there already - there's DVD-R and DVD-RW<

    Paul

    There's also DVD+RW and DVD-RAM, each one a DIFFERENT standard.

    As far as dual-sided cd's go; the standards don't allow for it, the way they do for DVD. At this point, I don't think there's any manufacturer who would change that.

    Marty
     
  13. Leo Kerr

    Leo Kerr Screenwriter

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    yet whilst the standards forbid it, what would happen if someone merely took two CD-Rs and glued them together? Would the average single disc or carousel player handle it? (Not, particularly, the 100+ changers; they're looking for small discs anyway.)
    Come to think of it, I've got some old moldies lying around, and some coasters; maybe I'll give it a shot.
    Leo Kerr
     
  14. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I'm fairly certain that dual sided CDs are technically not possible to produce. CDs are manufactured with the aluminum pit disc at the "top" of the disc with a very thin layer of plastic above it, with a thick layer of plastic below which the laser penetrates. I don't think dual side CDs of any kind are possible.
     
  15. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Keith,

    It may turn out to be a moot point. Companies have long been working toward creating a blue laser with a long life and at a competitive price. Right now, companies such as CREE are very close. If I remember correctly, use of a blue lasar would amount to an increase of something like 9X's a CD or DVD's current storage capacity. I used to know a lot more about this as I own a lot of tech stocks (yes, I ate it here, but my optimism never wanes). I sold most of my CREE and haven't kept up with it as much lately, but I'm pretty sure they're on target with the blue laser.
     
  16. Graham Michael

    Graham Michael Auditioning

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    Okay, question - There's a lot of talk of CD's being thicker due to being stamped from the top and so on.
    What about CD-R's? They're not stamped at all - they're burned - wouldn't this discount the previous argument? What's wrong with simply reducing the thickness of the bottom layer and sticking two burnable layers back to back?
    Just an uneducated stab in the dark [​IMG]
     
  17. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  18. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Blair Witch 2 has a DVD on one side, CD on the other [​IMG]
    Yes it still sucks, but it should be noted [​IMG]
     
  19. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

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