What computer should I buy in 2017? (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

I estimated going pure SSD for +$100 would give more effective speed than the i7. And this way, I can add in 16GB third party ram later and not feel too bad about it.

Dave, based on how you say you use your computer, I'd say you absolutely made the most prudent decision. The pure SSD will positively have more of a speed payoff than an i7, again, for how you use your computer. I do enough video processing that I definitely want the i7, but that doesn't seem to be your case. Join me in the ridicule club.

Let us know what you think once you have it.

 

[JohnRice]

BTW, SSDs are great for boot drives, but they will start to slow down as the system gets fragged, just like with any drive. I'm pretty sure they still don't have the repeated rewrite life of traditional drives, so you don't want to rewrite to them more than you need to, but they do still benefit from an erase and restore once in a while to defrag the system. About once a year, I erase and restore my system from a bootable backup. I've always done that with traditional drives too.

 

[DaveF]

I'm a network administrator,
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I didn't much care for Macs then and dislike them even more today. BUT I also disliked Windows then
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I don't like any vendors' all-in-one PCs
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Even though it's the OS I've used for over 20 years, I've never been overly fond of Windows.

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The GUI on Windows 10 is something of a train wreck and Microsoft doesn't seem to want to "fix" it.
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I'm not a fan of anything Google.
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I am a fan of open source and have dabbled with Linux. Overall I like it but find it even more obtuse than OSX to get things done,
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And iPads... Giant Apple phones that can't make phone calls. Used one for work, found it incapable of doing "real" work

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Congrats on your purchase and I hope you enjoy its use!

I think I'll enjoy my purchase far more than you've ever enjoyed any computer ever, from the sounds of it!

And this gets to the answer of "why buy a Mac?" Because I enjoy them. I'm not picking the least awful computer to suffer at home. I'm paying a premium for computer hardware and OS and software I enjoy using.

 

[DaveF]

Dave, based on how you say you use your computer, I'd say you absolutely made the most prudent decision. The pure SSD will positively have more of a speed payoff than an i7, again, for how you use your computer. I do enough video processing that I definitely want the i7, but that doesn't seem to be your case. Join me in the ridicule club.

Let us know what you think once you have it.

My media pc is a Skylake i5 3.2GHz with a Samsung 500 GB SSD boot drive and 8GB RAM. I've got a fair idea what to expect. It's not endless powe, but it's a zippy system and runs circles around an old Core 2 Duo with spinning drive.

BTW, SSDs are great for boot drives, but they will start to slow down as the system gets fragged, just like with any drive. I'm pretty sure they still don't have the repeated rewrite life of traditional drives, so you don't want to rewrite to them more than you need to, but they do still benefit from an erase and restore once in a while to defrag the system

I'm not sure about this. Fragmentation hasn't been a real issue for computers in over a decade. And as the nature of SSDs is having full speed random access, fragmentation should be a non-issue.

Also, lifetimes of SSDs has improved a lot in the past few years. They have limited read/write operations, but it's large compared to normal use. Something like 50GB of writes, daily for over three years (skimming an older AnandTech article).

 

[JohnRice]

I know this is 2.5 years old, but it's good info.

 

[JohnRice]

I just know that after I restore the boot drive, it runs faster. Am I imagining it?

 

[DaveF]

This seems informed, regarding Windows SSDs.

No, Windows is not foolishly or blindly running a defrag on your SSD every night, and no, Windows defrag isn't shortening the life of your SSD unnecessarily. Modern SSDs don't work the same way that we are used to with traditional hard drives.

Yes, your SSD's file system sometimes needs a kind of defragmentation and that's handled by Windows, monthly by default, when appropriate. The intent is to maximize performance and a long life. If you disable defragmentation completely, you are taking a risk that your filesystem metadata could reach maximum fragmentation and get you potentially in trouble.

“The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD? - Scott Hanselman”
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRealAndCompleteStoryDoesWindowsDefragmentYourSSD.aspx

 

[DaveF]

And there's this:
“So your Mac isn't performing as it used to and needs a speed boost. You think back to what you used to do on your old PC and remember disk defragging - that should have the same effect on Macs, right? After all, it made your old PC run a lot faster.

Sadly, that's not the case. Even though Windows has always had disk defragging software (even if it has been renamed to "Optimise Disk" in recent OS releases), Apple has never included defragging software in macOS.”

http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac/how-defrag-mac-why-you-dont-need-3600241/

 

[BobO'Link]

I think I'll enjoy my purchase far more than you've ever enjoyed any computer ever, from the sounds of it!

And this gets to the answer of "why buy a Mac?" Because I enjoy them. I'm not picking the least awful computer to suffer at home. I'm paying a premium for computer hardware and OS and software I enjoy using.

In spite of that lengthy, and somewhat negative, commentary I love computers and what I do for a living! I've been building, maintaining, and programming computers for ~35 years. I spend upwards of 8 hours per day, even on weekends, at a computer keyboard. I just don't much care for GUI interfaces as most take what were formerly quick tasks and turn them into click fests taking 3-5 times as long to complete. At least scripting hasn't yet gone away. Web interfaces exacerbate GUI issues with a significant reduction in speed and performance. But most of that can be laid directly at the feet of JAVA. While transportable, applications created with it are horribly sluggish, frequently do not support "hot keys," and require even more

I have software I enjoy using - but it's things like databases, spreadsheets, and gaming. Since the advent of GUI based programming, most OSes just get in the way. Yes, I much prefer DOS. Even with its somewhat arcane manipulation of specific files to get things running properly. At their cores, WIndows still runs on a version of DOS and OSX runs on a version of Unix. There are scripting languages for both because the developers just haven't learned how, or just can't be bothered, to properly leverage the underpinnings via a GUI to make power user types happy. They seem to be to busy making it "look good" rather than improve usefulness. Oh well... maybe some day...

In spite of all that I enjoy using computers and can't imagine a life without them.

Again, your reasons are exactly why you should have chosen how you did. Computing is a very personal experience and what works well for one user doesn't necessarily work well for another. That's what makes them so interesting and challenging.

 

[DaveF]

That's part of the beauty of the Mac: you've got a BSD kernel you can get to anytime. And there's no way anyone likes DOS more than Unix, except from inexperience and unfamiliarity. Additionally, you can use any scripting language you like: Python, Ruby, Perl, whatever (command line or with GUI editor). And with Parallels or BootCamp you can run Windows and Linux on the same machine. Lots of fun for all tastes.


Of course, you can do scripting and all that good stuff on Windows. I need to get back to a Python script is started on my media pc that I got stuck on.

For all that, you might have more fun setting up a cheap Linux box to tinker with.

 

[DaveF]

(And I'm doing all today's HTF-ing, downloading TiVo shows for business travel, and light gaming ... on my giant-iPhone-that-can't-make-phone-calls...)

 

[Dave Upton]

That's part of the beauty of the Mac: you've got a BSD kernel you can get to anytime. And there's no way anyone likes DOS more than Unix, except from inexperience and unfamiliarity. Additionally, you can use any scripting language you like: Python, Ruby, Perl, whatever (command line or with GUI editor). And with Parallels or BootCamp you can run Windows and Linux on the same machine. Lots of fun for all tastes.


Of course, you can do scripting and all that good stuff on Windows. I need to get back to a Python script is started on my media pc that I got stuck on.

For all that, you might have more fun setting up a cheap Linux box to tinker with.

While I agree that shell scripting is better than DOS, windows now has powershell, which is extremely powerful. Granted I'm a power user like Bob myself, managing large IT infrastructures via scripting on a daily basis, in addition to many Linux/Unix/Mac boxes.

Right now, scripting wise I am very much a fan of what Microsoft has done with powershell.

 

[Sam Posten]

Some people like building computers. I like using computers for personal goals, not arcane legerdemain.

 

[DaveF]

For those playing along at home, here's a little summary that I just found explaining the gist of PowerShell

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/514492/what-is-windows-powershell

 

[BobO'Link]

^Yep. I'm a CMD expert but am growing to like PowerShell more and more. It's very powerful. I'll be at a tech conference next week where we'll be discussing and sharing some PowerShell creations.

Sam, I like both building and using computers for personal goals/projects. I enjoy learning the "guts" (aka arcane legerdemain) as it lets me fully troubleshoot and maintain my own systems.

 

[ohiograd06]

I'm also a network administrator/pc tech. My personal opinion is get the windows 10 pc. Macs are nice, but they are very overpriced for what you get in my opinion. I worked in a school system for 2.5 years and supported macs, even had my apple certification and dislike them. They are essentially the same hardware as a pc, but a different casing.

The other thing I heard the other tech talk about, which I agree wholeheartedly with, don't get an all in one. There are the macs, we've discussed pricing on those, the other pc all in ones, seem to cheaply built. All in all, all in one systems will be a pain in the butt work on or service typically if you ever have issues.

I'm going to say honestly, if you are buying consumer grade hardware, none of them is great any longer in my opinion. Consumer grade gear is like audio equipment, made to a certain price point. If you really want hardware reliability, go for a business class system. I'm most familiar with Dell, but hp and others make business class systems also. With Dell, look beyond their inspiron line, beyond the xps, etc. Start looking at the dell optiplex systems and others in that range. Yes they cost more, but at work, when we pull one of these, it's usually because the system is getting to old to be of use, not because it's broken down. You will pay more for it with similar processors and specs to consumer systems, but you are paying for the quality.

If you must go consumer grade, if you have a microcenter near you, go there, purchase your system (where I get my stuff from), and get one of their protection plans. I've used that on parts and the one here is easy to deal with.

Windows 10, I like it. I heard the other techs opinion but if you sit down and play with it, I think it's one of the best systems they ever made. Once people realize you can customize the start menu and learn it, they are happy as a lark. Most of our folks at work run that now and we have very few issues out of over 100 users. You will have to learn it someday anyway if using windows. Could stand a little less advertising in the os, but overall it's a good system in my opinion.

 

[Sam Posten]

Windows 10 is the least worst OS MS has built, yes. Except maybe 7.

You guys are all looking at it from the same narrow perspective tho, as someone who knows how to troubleshoot the myriad problems that always pop up for normal users. Good luck Grandma taking a Windows 10 PC to get fixed or troubleshot. The customer service more than makes up the difference in up front cost. Good luck mom building your own PC from Microcenter. Add on the software you can't run on a PC and it's a no brainer for those of us who actually do know wtf we are doing.

 

[ohiograd06]

Windows 10 is a little different from a troubleshooting perspective, but any tech who's job is pc support should be able to navigate within it and work. I work on them all the time, once you get used to it, it's not a hard concept.

 

[Sam Posten]

That's not the issue, of course there are millions of qualified Windows techs. It's the scheduling and arranging for support. Vice bring it to the store, it's fixed there, usually for free, and you move on with your life.

 

[ohiograd06]

I also do computer repair on the side, scheduling isn't much different now than a few years ago. As a tech I'm not doing free work though.