What are the chances of the original quad mix of DSOTM on DTS-CD?

Discussion in 'Music' started by LanceJ, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    I have heard the rumor for several years that DTS Entertainment pressed DTS-CD test discs of the 70s quad mix of Dark Side Of The Moon. But supposedly due to the emergence of dvd-audio, the plan for actually selling this title was halted.

    Two questions about this:

    1) Does anybody know the facts about this disc, or at least some really solid guesses about it?

    2) Would you buy it if DTS started selling it?

    I will admit to having an ulterior motive for posting this thread: I am hoping a Capitol or DTS employee will read this to see if there is any interest in such a release. And yes, I have heard the sacd version and it does sound good but I keep reading where the quad version is more aggressive, a mixing characteristic I like.

    Also, since this is a quad mix--with no dedicated LFE channel--it will possibly have low bass in all four channels BUT since it is a DTS-CD a receiver's bass management system can be used for those folks who need it--cool.

    Thanks for any responses.

    LJ
     
  2. Anthony Hom

    Anthony Hom Supporting Actor

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    It's a noble effort, but not likely to happen. They won't spend the costs in making a DTS of the quad if it hurts sales of the SACD. And whether it does or not probably doesn't matter, it just makes sense to the bean counters.

    If you want a DTS CD of the quad, there is one floating out there at Record shows.
     
  3. Rob Gardiner

    Rob Gardiner Cinematographer

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    Have any other original quad mixes been released in multichannel (DVD-A or SACD)?

    I'm particularly interested in John Lennon or Paul McCartney / Wings albums (due to residual Beatlemania), or Jeff Beck albums that include otherwise unreleased guitar parts in the other two speakers!
     
  4. Anthony Hom

    Anthony Hom Supporting Actor

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    Well, Paul has released Band on the run and Venus and mars on DTS CDs using the quad masters. They are interesting to listen, and they are priced lower since their re-issue. There is a John Lennon quad, Imagine, but it has not been issued. The only other one is Ringo's Goodnight Vienna.
     
  5. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Thanks Anthony.

    What also prompted my question is that I think either on Steve Hoffman's forum awhile back or maybe the Quadrophonicquad forum someone said they owned nearly 3500 vinyl quad albums. Even if that was a typo, and it was only three hundred and fifty, that is still a lot of surround material that is sitting in a vault somewhere, already mixed and ready to be transferred to a modern digital format. And there are definitely supposed to be quad versions of other popular Floyd albums.

    I myself have complained about too much classic rock being released on hi-res, but in the end, good music is good music & I just can't see the reasoning behind NOT utilizing all those ready-to-go quad master tapes. I don't want to piss off the DTS people but their DTS-CD selection isn't, um, exactly stellar. Can you imagine how much word-of-mouth advertising they would get if they announced Wish You Were Here in quad form was going to debut on their proprietary format? No special player, b.m. not an issue and works just like a CD.

    Could it be because quad is an "old" format and people would think that it is too dated to sound good?

    Also, how would a compressed-format/alternate version of DSOTM hurt the sacd version's sales?

    I don't mean to sound like a little kid whining about wanting a candy bar while standing in the checkout line & I admit to not fully understanding the ins and outs of the music business but these questions keep nagging at me.

    LJ
     
  6. RaulR

    RaulR Stunt Coordinator

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    I think the record companies are missing a bet by not reissuing more quad mixes of classic albums in the new multichannel formats. For one thing, they could have splashy ad campaigns advertising how these mixes are just as "official" as the familiar stereo ones ("and now for the first time, you can hear them in glorious high-res!"). Instead of just trying to make new surround mixes be as faithful in content and "feel" to the stereo mixes as possible (which is probably the biggest fault I can find with the 5.1 mix of The Dark Side of the Moon -- yeah, it's all around me, but ultimately, I've heard it before), they could get the existing quad mixes out of the vaults, hype their historical value and sell them on the strength of their being obviously different from what we're used to hearing.

    For my part, what convinced me to get the Tubular Bells SACD was that it included the original quad mix. I'd never heard it before, and I was curious to find out for myself what all these variances from the stereo mix that I'd read about were. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that a large enough portion of the record-buying public would share that kind of curiosity? But hey, maybe I don't understand the workings of the music biz any more than Lance does. [​IMG]
     
  7. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I have two McCartney quad DTS discs and one Jeff Beck one. If you don't own them already you need to buy them now before they go out of print. I suspect that if these are ever released again they will be remixed for hi-rez like DSOTM and the quads will never be available again.
     
  8. Rick_Brown

    Rick_Brown Second Unit

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    Lance, check out this site for a wealth of info on quad music. Some of the folks there have made superb DTS disks from quad vinyl. I obtained the Parson's DSOTM quad DTS mix from one of them and it is stellar.

    This is not an old fogie's quad site - they are just as interested in hi rez, too.

    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/
     
  9. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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    Lance,

    Why the insistence on DTS-CD all the time? DTS is putting out DVD-A now which gives us Hi-res PCM as well as DTS as multichannel playback options, in addition to stereo PCM. Why look for a format which only caters to those which own DTS receivers. DTS's DVD-A allow those without DTS capability, to still listen to an album via the PCM stereo track they include.

    DVD-A is niche, and DTS-CD is even more of a niche.



    That seems to be the case with DTS-CD...it is older and has since been replaced with a format which provides greater sound quality, more user flexibility, and hence a larger customer base.

    I do agree that quad mixes could be an easy way to get multichannel albums to market in a quicker manner, if the original quad masters are still in decent shape (doubtful, especially for material that was considered dead for over 20 years). Making new multichannel mixes from the original multitracks using newer technology should provide better sonics 99% of the time, then an old analog quad mix.

    J
     
  10. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    The Pentatone label has been issuing SACDs that were originally recorded in quad and they sound good.

    I doubt there will be a Quad DSOTM given the expense that just went into the Super Audio disc, but I would like to hear it. I have never heard the original quad LP of this album.



    So true.
     
  11. Anthony Hom

    Anthony Hom Supporting Actor

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    If you want a very comprehensive list of quad recordings made during the 70's, this site has a good discopgraphy, indicating which albums and also what quad format was made.

    http://personal.riverusers.com/~mand...c/quadindx.htm

    The problem with Quad is the same with 5.1 today. In order to experience it, you have to sit in one spot and to listen. I'm not certain, but how many people listen to surround music with other people? Do people here gather round with friends to listen to surround sound music? Even in quad's pre-walkman days, it was only a passing fad among mainstream listeners, leaving the dedicated few to get what they could before quads were phased out.
    IMO, quads are a curiosity, almost like listening to a record in the control room before it was mixed so you can hear each different channel separation. Whether it was really the artist's intent or an engineers' intent is up to the listener.
     
  12. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Supporting Actor

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    The Blow By Blow SACD has the original quad mix, with the lead guitars in the rear channels. It sounds great. The DTS CD of BBA also has the original quad mix.
     
  13. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Justin: while I still believe the concept for dvd-audio is a good one--i.e. the PCM format & visual extras--to me the reality is that all those photo and filmed visuals cost too much and the operating menus seem to require much time to design & test but since supposedly music consumers are "demanding" value-added features like that, labels are providing them and in turn these are causes(?) of the ridiculously slow rate of title releases.

    I don't know what kind of focus groups these labels used to gather this kind of info but this consumer certainly isn't demanding them--I just think that if they just happen to be on the disc it's a nice surprize, but that is all.

    And after four years many discs are still appearing with sloppily designed and confusing-to-navigate menus. I personally think four years is plenty of time to learn how to design a smoothly functioning operating system. That Elvis dvd-audio has no on-screen menus so obviously this is an available option to use--why not use it more often???

    And now we have this mess with the Pioneer DV-563A and that new dvd-audio authoring software that don't get along--you know, when a player like this is being bought by so many people (my local Best Buys run out of them constantly), I would think those software designers would do a few tests to make sure their new software was compatible with that player, or at least notify Pioneer's management if it was found to have problems. When establishing a new format I think teamwork is a must, especially when that format is struggling. And using the lousy economy or the shaky state of the music business is no excuse not to adhere to such a productive concept.

    And a DTS-CD gives the user the choice of using bass management if he/she needs it--it's obvious to me the chips for full hi-res b.m. must be costly otherwise they would be appearing in all the players by now. And let's face it: while I and others really into surround music might not care about installing five large speakers in their listening room, many people just won't or physically cannot do that.

    I know the DTS format doesn't sound as good as PCM but it still sounds good enough to allow me to enjoy the music it carries. And the physical carrier format it utilizes has been around for more than twenty years so the glitches have been worked out of that system.

    DTS decoders have been part of pretty much all receivers sold for almost five years now--I know there was a period when receivers included 5.1 inputs but no DTS but this seemed to only last for a couple or so years. Now even bargain-basement $300 HTiBs include DTS. So I think only a very small segment of the population won't be able to play a DTS-CD.

    I will still buy a dvd-audio title if I like the music on it but I no longer get excited about this format--IMO it is being implemented without asking its intended audience what they truly want it to give them.

    LJ
     
  14. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Thanks Rick for the Link to the Quad forum--but it looks like now one has to register just to be able to read the forum. [​IMG]

    Anthony: thx for that link. There ARE a lot of quad recordings out there & I have yet to finish reading that list. I did get up to the "E's" though and saw David Essex's Rock On album listed--I'll bet the title track would sound cool in surround (down here the classic rock stations still play this cool & spacey tune. But judging by that eye-popping $6.98 price for the entire CD I guess the other tracks aren't, ummm, as popular).

    Found another reason the success of ANY multi-format system could be affected (I found this page while skimming through AA's "Hi-Rez Highway"): Two formats? Then I want TWO royalty payments!

    Maybe this is why we haven't heard anything more about the DualDisc.

    LJ
     

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