What am I doing wrong? Progressive DVD on a Mits through Denon Receiver

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Greg Robinson, Feb 22, 2002.

  1. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    My friend called me over to his house today to check out his new DVD player (Toshiba SD4700). He told me he was unimpressed and he could not tell the difference over his Sony DVP-s530d (interlaced, a few years old). He owns a 65" Mits diamond model 16x9 set from 2 years ago. Here is the problem in a nutshell: when I press "Colorstream Selector" on the Tosh remote to switch it to Progressive Output, the screen goes all scrambled, but you can still hear the audio. Hit Colorstream again, and it reads Interlaced on-screen and the picture is back to normal. We tried this on Mask of Zorro (anamorphic) and Top Gun (non-anamporphic) - same result. Here's the rub: he's running his component video through his Denon AVR-3300 receiver (DVD in and Monitor out). I didn't have time to stay and troubleshoot but my first guess was that the Receiver could not relay the progressive signal? Is that possible? If that's not it, what else can i try? I'm sure the player is fine, and that he just has something set wrong. I quickly went into the player's menu and he's got it set for 16x9 TV and Progressive Conversion is set to AUTO. Could it be his Mits TV has only one input that will ACCEPT progressive and he's not using it? There's a p/i switch on back of the Tosh and it's switched to P. THOUGHTS??? Thanks!
     
  2. Kyle_Y

    Kyle_Y Stunt Coordinator

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    The receiver is certainly the problem. It's component video bandwidth does nto go high enough(50mhz I believe) to support progressive scan or HD formats I think. I'm positive, but I ran into the same problem with my friends receiver, thankfully he coudl return his an bought an Onkyo 898. The lower end Denon's only go up till 27mhz while Onkyo 797 and up go till 50mhz and Yamaha high end goes till 60mhz.
     
  3. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    Kyle,

    The receiver is the problem, but not for the reasons you mention.

    Progressive scan DVD requires about 12-13MHz of video bandwidth. The receiver (if a Denon 3802) has 27MHz of component switching bandwith - more than enough.

    The problem is that your friend is running Component IN to the receiver, but using MONITOR out, which is composite. The Denon does not transcode between different video signals - So what you put in, you must put out.

    He needs to run the component cable either directly to his set, or, if he has multiple component sources, put the component sources to the component inputs on his receiver, and use a COMPONENT cable out to his TV.

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  4. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I'm going to have to agree with Ryan. Video "switching" does not mean from one type to another, it typically only involves switching among different sources of the same type.

    If he has HD input on the RPTV, why not run it directly there from the DVD? Too many HD sources?
     
  5. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    Perhaps I mislead you - when I said "monitor" that is what Denon labels its Component Out port. It IS component video cable IN to the Denon and component video cable OUT of it. The Mits TV DOES have an input for HDTV but I thought that ivolved a different type of signal/cable. Should he be using THAT input instead and forget the receiver all together? Thanks again.
     
  6. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg,

    I just thought of something....

    MAKE SURE that he is running the component cable (from his DVD player or receiver - doesnt matter) to a HD-Component input on the back of the TV!

    My Sony HS10 has one set of INTERLACED COMPONENT inputs, and one set of HD-Component inputs - They both look identicle, but the HD-Component input should be marked something like "Digital Input" or "DTV in" .... Something like that...

    Only the HD component input can accept a 480p or higher signal. All the rest of the inputs are 480i-only.

    Which Denon receiver does he have?

    Anyways - To answer your other question -

    If he only has one "HD" source (progressive scan DVD counts), then there is no need to go through the receiver - In fact, it will degrade the picture quality somewhat.

    I'm almost positive his Mits TV has HD component inputs, so all he has to do, is plug the DVD player directly into that input. His set may have more than one HD input as well, so until he uses all those up, there's no reason he should use his reciever to switch....

    However, if he is running component IN to the receiver, and component OUT to the TV using a good set of component cables, then is should work.

    I have a Denon 3802, but I dont use it's switching capabilities (yet). Im not sure if there is some sort of setup involved with that in the receiver's menu...

    You may want to read the manual and make sure everything is selected appropriately for component switching....The Denon's can be tricky little machines when it comes to setting them up...

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  7. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    Also, just a thought, but I trialed the 4700 a few months back. If I remember there is a switch in the back for progressive. Just because the Colorstream is remote selectable doesn't mean you're going to get progressive unless it is enabled.
     
  8. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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  9. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    My main set is a Mitsu 65905 .. is that the model? If not, it might be helpful to know which model it is.

    Mine certainly works with a progressive input. I have a panny RP91 running in progressive mode, with component video cables wired directly into the tv's DVD inputs, which can handle interlaced or progressive signals. If you press the INFO button on the remote when watching the tv, it will tell you if the input is 480p or 480i. In 480p mode, my mitsu won't let you change the aspect ratio using the 'format' button on the remote. Hopefully his Tohiba player does scaling, so he can get around this since the set locks into widescreen mode with a 480p signal.

    The tv has a set of component inputs labeled DVD. He should be using them. There's also another set of RGB inputs for DTV. Don't use the DTV inputs with the DVD player.

    You might have to enable the progressive mode in the tv's setup menu. I can check later, but my wife is watching something downstairs now. I think it's in the 'input' setup under the DVD input which might be labeled input 3 or 4 or something like that. Scroll over to the right, and there are various choices for it. I'll check later to verify this. There's also a setting so you can change the tv from running 540p or 1080i, but that shouldn't make much difference here. I can run mine either way with the progressive input.

    I would try bypassing the receiver if you can't get it to work to see if that's the problem or not. (Does he really need to switch component inputs to the tv through the receiver?)

    -David
     
  10. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes David, I think that is the model he has. I know it's not the CURRENT 65" diamond model (907?) but rather one, MAYBE 2 models prior. I know it has 1080i written on the front so it is certainly HD-ready. He DOES have an "HDTV" input on the back but I was reluctant to try that one. I'll have him check out the Mits setup menu and make sure his inputs are set up properly. Thanks again.
     
  11. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    ok .. I bought mine around April/May 2000, so it sounds like it's the same model.

    65905 means 65", 9 means diamond or platinum, and 05 is the series for that year, so a 65x05 are all in the same line, same year. I have the manual in case your friend doesn't have it.

    I have the dvd player connected to the dedicated DVD video in connectors, which shows up as input-3, which I have labeled as DVD. I checked the menus, and I didn't find anything that you have to change for progressive input on the dedicated dvd input.

    You can actually use the DTV inputs with a component video connection if you need to try them also. Once you get a signal connected to it, go to 'assign inputs' under 'setup' or 'advanced setup' menu and once you have a signal, you can cycle the DTV input between 'off', 'RGB' and 'YPrPb'. When there's no signal on the DTV inputs, the 'YPrPb' choice won't show up in the menu choices.

    I think you need to try wiring the dvd player video directly to the set and it might also be helpful to have another known working progressive scan dvd player with you so you can diagnose where the problem is. It's possible that it's the player, the receiver or the set or maybe even the cables, but I doubt if it's the cables because they were already working with a non-progressive signal.

    -David
     
  12. Robert Cranwell

    Robert Cranwell Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey guys 480p is actually a 31.5khz signal. Factor 525 lines times 60hz for progressive and you 31500 which is the base formula. But your right about the majority of receivers not being able to handle the video through-put. Some new component switching recievers can handle 50.0khz signal which is good for 720p and might handle a 1080i but not 1080p {boy wouldn't that be nice} My own .02 cents is to run the video out direct to the TV and just get used to 2 remotes if needed.

    Rob..
     
  13. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks guys. i suspect it is the receiver that is causing the problems. I may have time today to go tinker with it so i'll try that first. thanks and i'll let you know what works.

    p.s. - I went to a DIFFERENT friends' last night and they recently puchased an SD3755 5-disc carousel model from Toshiba. Has anyone used that player? I found it to be very slow in responding to commands and the remote lacks FF and REWIND buttons! I only bring it up because it's part of the latest gen from Toshiba (like the SD4700 being described in this thread). The other thing that killed me was that we watched SNATCH and intermittently throughout the movie, a VERY thin red line (no pun intended) would appear in the upper right corner as the TOP edge of the upper letterbox bar. He has a 4x3 Sony so it was performing downconversion. I assume this red line was being generated by the player? Ever hear of that before? OK thanks!
     
  14. del jones

    del jones Auditioning

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    gregg, I have denon 4800 receiver,panny56,dtc100 rca hdtv sat reciever, everything run trought the denon`s component inputs & output to the mits ws65809. I had the same problem.
    I had to unplug the mits from the wall outlet,uplug the components from the mits,Repulg the Mits, go to the input menu change the DTV input from RGB to YPrP, Connecte the component from the denon to the DTV input on the Mits,everthing works through the denon. The mits auto detects, if the singal is a 1080i from the rca dtc100 or a 480 from the panny 56. The mits makes the adjustment and shows a great picture. It is in the manual, but the manual does not tell you to unplug the mits to reset the unit.Hope
    it works out for you.[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Del Jones
     
  15. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    Insufficient video bandwidth within an A/V receiver will not cause the picture to scramble, break up, or disappear, all that will happen is the picture won't be as sharp.
    The problem would have to be someplace else, as suggested in replies above.
    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  16. JonBouche

    JonBouche Agent

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    I have a Mits 55857 HDTV with a progressive scan DVD player and HD cable box. There is no need to connect the DVD player to the DTV input. I believe you have 2 other component inputs that will accept either 480i or 480p, and either of these will be sufficient. I switch back and forth between interlace and progressive all the time in doing tests, and the Mits handles this on the fly without an issue, as long as these inputs are active, which I believe you have to do in the Menu. I would also agree with the others to run the component cables directly to the tv, unless there is some other compelling reason. Going through the receiver causes you to have 2 sets of cables and also increases the chance of adding noise and other degredation issues.
     

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