Wharfedale Speakers (comments and mini review) (1 Viewer)

[Seth_L]

Seth,
I was referring to the Sapphire 87's low frequency driver distorting at high levels.

PeterV

Does the same thing happen to the Emerald 97s?

I hope that will dual 6.75" cones the Sapphire 89s will fare a little better than the 87s. However the Modus 1.6 have two 6.75" cones and they still distort if pushed hard enough. I guess I will find out soon enough.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

I have an update to my review. Tonight I decided to use my QSC PLX2402 amp to power the various speakers instead of the Sony DA5ES's amps.

I found out that I was running out of power when driving the Emerald 99s. They would not turn harsh, but they started sounding kinda crappy north of -20dB. So I used the QSC amp and adjusted it appropriately so that it was as loud (measured with SPL meter) at -25dB as the Sony was at -25dB. At -16dB I was able to start clipping the QSC amp. That means I was putting in excess of 500W into the Emerald 99s without any noticable distortion. With enough power (which the DA5ES doesn't have) it is possible to drive the Emerald 99s to the point of being harsh.

I didn't really notice any difference between the QSC and the DA5ES on the other two pairs of speakers (Modus 1.6 and Infinity IL40). The Sony seems to have enough power for them. I'm eager to see what the Sapphire 89s sound like with the QSC pushing them.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

An update should be coming later today. UPS will be delivering my Sapphire 89s today. I'll let you all know how they compare to the Modus 1.6, Emerald 99s, and Infinity IL40s.

Seth

 

[Seth_L]

Link Removed
Well I got the Sapphire 89s today. No damage from Ubid or UPS. I'm going to have to revisit my earlier comments some. I refined my A/B technique to compensate for the sensativity difference in the speakers (yes I know I should have done that before).
Here are the measured volumes in dB from my SPL meter at -30dB on my DA5ES reciever [internal white noise (pink?)].
From Left to Right:
Modus 1.6 - 71dB
Sapphire 89 - 73dB
Infinity IL40 - 71dB
Emerald 99 - 69dB
The bottom line is when the sensativity difference is taken into account they all sound fairly similar. They have slight tonal difference that I will try to go over.
Modus 1.6
- Very tonally similar to the Infinity IL40 and the Sapphire 89.
- More sibilant than the IL40. Virtually identical to the Sapphire 89 in this regard.
- Plays lower with a bit more low end emphasis than the IL 40 (perhaps too much low end emphasis).
- Low end is a tad muddy (somewhat similar to a bandpass sub).
- Will distort the woofers from low end bass before the other 3 pairs.
Sapphire 89
- Very tonally similar to the IL40 and the Modus 1.6.
- More sibilant than the IL40. Virtually identical to the Modus 1.6 in this regard.
- Has a less pronounced low end than the other 3 speakers. Still seems to have low end extension, not just as loud.
- Bass is tight and crisp.
- Does not distort up to very loud volumes, even in music with very loud bass.
Infinity Interlude IL40
- Very tonally similar to the Modus 1.6 and the Sapphire 89.
- Less sibilant than the Wharfedale speakers.
- Has a nice clean low end response that is less muddy than the Modus 1.6, but not as loud as the Modus 1.6 or the Emerald 99.
- Low end is a bit louder than the Sapphire 89.
- Does not distort up to very loud volumes even in music with very loud bass.
- Tends to get a bit more harsh in the midrange at very loud volumes than the any of the Wharfedale speakers.
Emerald 99
- Has less midrange than the other two Wharfedales and the IL40. (Most likely do to the larger woofer/midrange)
- More sibilant than the other Wharfedales. Way more sibilant than the IL40.
- Bass is similar in volume to the IL40, but extends deeper.
- Does not distort at extreme volume levels even when fed 500W and a lot of bass.
All in all it's probably somewhat a tossup. It all depends on your tastes. If I had to pick one I'd probably pick the Wharfedale Sapphire 89s or the Modus 1.6. They cost less than the Infinity IL40s and sound just as good (perhaps better depending on you like your sibilance). The Modus 1.6 and Sapphire 89 each have an achiles heel in the low end, but when used with a sub the problems will vanish.
Seth

 

[Paul Clarke]

Hi Seth,

Great job of speaker evals. I don't know that I would agree with you on everything but you can only report things as your ears hear them.

I suspect you are quite right about the 99 mid-range. The 97's use a 6.7" for the mid and woof and are well known for their mid-range prowess. Also, while the sensitivity of the Emerald line, both Model II's and IV's, is less than the others speakers in the comparo, they do seem to benefit better from high levels of power and hold their fidelity longer.

Question: could you give the length of time each of these sets has had to break in? And do you run them with grills on or off? Consistently?

Thanks again.

Paul

 

[Geoff L]

Seth
When dose you dealership open.
I belive you said you've had the IL's for awhile so this is addressed at the Wharfs.
Have you given each set of the Wharfs at least 50 hours min play time, or was your comparision done out of the box?
Also could you describe (your meaning of sibilance)?
I take sibilance to mean a push in the s-sh-z ect, prior to over driving or amp clippng the speaker and most noted in the tweeter producing frquency range.
I can't speak for the other Wharfs mentioned, but as per the 99's 95's and 93 Emeralds I can. Our ears are certainly all different in what we hear in a specific model for sure.
My take is that I find the NEWER Emerald 99-MKIV's with the flat face silk tweet to be quite bright out of the box, BUT NO-Ssss push even with a lower end 1105 Yammi drving them. I am hoping the out of the box brightness will tame down as did the 5' and 3's, but this *came only* after 50+ hours of play time.
Also the 5's and 3's are from the MKII series NOT THE MKIV and use the *horn array silk tweeter* and ~{seemed much less bright out of the box}~!
If I've mistaken YOUR meaning of the Silibance definition, please explain what you ment in your Sibilance referance please....
Paul,
Yes still witing for these things to calm down, the Emerald Oak (MKIV-99's). Decieded to run them all night now to speed up the process. Drug them out into the main room so we can sleep and threw one of the SAE 502's on them. If after the hours get on them and things don't calm down substansually, I may just change too the horn array, I would (order the new horn array tweets from Wharf) as it's a 3 screw instead of 4 screw mount but the cut out is the same. Still way to forward & bright at this point for me. (15-hrs play time).
Will wait till the 100 hours or so get on them before making a decision. Of course will check with IAG-America to make sure it's the same tweet with just a different speaker baffel, horn array or flat face. I am pretty sure it is, but will certainly check with them to make sure 99II's and 99IV's silk tweets are identical except for the array load.
Very nice to see the higher lines of Wharfs get talked about in the vast array of speakers available to the public. Look at the reviews around the web, they certainly hold their own & above, also doing it affordablely...Not the end all of speakers by any means, but well worth a listen if available to you to audition. Recommend a listen to the PI's, Emerald's, and newest top of the line Evoution series if ou can get the chance.
Got an awfull lot of Oak veneered speaks in the bedroom system now Paul, the better half will have me sleeping on the couch at this rate!
Regards
Geoff
Edit:
Phillip, I think at the KLH price point for the 1.6's, you will be more than pleased, even shocked at their sound. The look, can't say, some like them some don't...

 

[Seth_L]

Hi Seth,
Great job of speaker evals. I don't know that I would agree with you on everything but you can only report things as your ears hear them.
I suspect you are quite right about the 99 mid-range. The 97's use a 6.7" for the mid and woof and are well known for their mid-range prowess. Also, while the sensitivity of the Emerald line, both Model II's and IV's, is less than the others speakers in the comparo, they do seem to benefit better from high levels of power and hold their fidelity longer.
Question: could you give the length of time each of these sets has had to break in? And do you run them with grills on or off? Consistently?
Thanks again.
Paul

Paul,
I have Mark IV Emerald 99s. I listen to the speakers with the grills off. The IL40s are well broken in. I've used 'em for months. The others are less broken in. I've watched a few movies at reference volume on the Modus 1.6 and listening to a few hours of music on 'em. The Emeralds have not seen much use except during comparos (when they've seen 500W ). The Sapphires are new out of the box today and are even less broken in than the Emeralds.
What do you mean about consistenly? I used the Infinity's for about 5 months pretty much on a daily basis except for the last week when I switched to the Modus 1.6. They were used the the last week in place of the IL40s. The Emeralds have only been run a few tims for evaluation and the Sapphires have only run for an hour today.
Seth

 

[Philip Hamm]

Seth,

Thanks for your continued interest. I am very much looking forward to receiving my new Modus 1.6 speakers in the mail. Despite posts like this I have very low expectations due to the incredibly low price from uBid. I mean I paid KLH prices for these things. I hope they look nice. I'm sure my expectations will be exceeded since they are so low. They are for 100% stereo music use in my living room (dinner music, etc) and the look is more important than the sound in this application. Still, if they sound nice I'll be very happy.

I also wonder when your dealership will open.

 

[Seth_L]

If I've mistaken YOUR meaning of the Sibilance definition please explain what you ment in your Sibilance referance please....

I was referring to sibilance as in the tweeter's response. IE: the "sssss" sound in words, or the crash of symbols. The Wharfedale tweeters are a little brighter. They seem to sound a bit sharper, a little more cutting at the very high end. The term sibilance seemed fitting as it does not necessarily denote any bad characteristics.

The Modus 1.6 have probably had close to 50 hours of play. The Emerald 99 and the Sapphire 89 definitely have not had 50 hours of play. They're pretty much still "out of the box".

I don't think I'll be starting a Wharfedale dealership. I'm just an audio guy trying out some speakers.


Phil,

If you were looking for "pretty" speakers that sound good and are cheap the Sapphire Blues would seem to fit the bill (IMHO). I'm not all that impressed with the look of the Modus. It's not that they look cheap or anything, but they just don't really appeal on an astetic level to me. I think the "Maple" IL40s and the Sapphire Blues in Rosewood look better.

Seth

 

[Geoff L]

Seth

Thanks for the clear up, yes we are on the same page with the sibilance term. This should tone down quite a bit in the Emerald after around 50-hrs and get as soft as their going to around 100-hrs.

I've spoke allot with Paul about this issue with the new pair of 99IV's. Much much brighter than the II's out of the box. I don't care for it right now, but having the 3's, 5's, and Center in the II series, this brightness was present out of the box but not to this Extent. They calmed down allot once the hours got on them and I hope the 99-IV's will follow suite.

If not, will change the tweet to the II's style. Very refined with much softer presences. The midrage is fair to good but the larger 7.6" driver might be hurting it compared to the 95's and 97's 6.7" midrange. Again I hate to make a call on the sound till the hours get on them. They do change drasticaly once fully broken in. Also as you found out, they like power (lots of it) and the better the quailty of amplification, it will be certainly noticed in the sound they produce.

Not hearing the other models of Wharf's, very nice to see your side by side evaluation. Shoud help others to look into these Wharf models or least put them o their demo list. A their price points, a steal IMO.

Regards
Geoff

 

[Paul Clarke]

Seth,
Sorry about the 'consistently' confusion. I meant it in connection with the grills. I've known people to take them on and off depending on mood and this can affect speaker presentation in many models. I was just curious as to the consistency of your audition methodology.
I agree with Geoff that it is way too early to lay down anything definitive on the new arrivals. As you say, the IL40's have been with you for awhile. The 1.6's are just now getting to the adjustment zone. The 89's and 99's are far too fresh. I would say come back at a later date and do this again but I don't think you'll be hanging on to all these speaker sets that long. But I could be wrong.
I also agree on the sibilance except to note (as you did) that this is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally prefer a sharper, clearer sound than a slurred or fuzzy one in this area.
Geoff---old bean,
Angi will have you sleeping on the floor if you're not careful. But then sleeping on the floor has always been good for the back, at least it works for me.
I noticed after you sent me the update on the new EVO's that IAGAmerica changed their site to match the Brit one. Now all of that info on 'legacy' speakers is gone...kaput...
like an alien abduction. Thank goodness I downloaded some of it through the months.
I'm waiting for the EVO's to show up at my favorite Wharfedale audition shop. At the rate they (Wharfedale) are going, I don't think it will take them too much longer to be seen and heard in more places.
Paul

 

[Seth_L]

I agree with Geoff that it is way too early to lay down anything definitive on the new arrivals. As you say, the IL40's have been with you for awhile. The 1.6's are just now getting to the adjustment zone. The 89's and 99's are far too fresh. I would say come back at a later date and do this again but I don't think you'll be hanging on to all these speaker sets that long. But I could be wrong.

Do you know something I don't? Are you planning on making a roadtrip to my house to "release" them from my bedroom? I'm sure my parents would be happy (yes I'm 22 and live with my parents) I don't know what I'm going to do with 'em to be honest. Once I decide which pair I like the most I might buy a few of and replace my Infinity home theatre setup. Then again, I might not.
Seth

 

[Geoff L]

Seth
All that nosie and clutter, gheshhh you gota get rid of them quickly.
Road map please, and Paul I got dibbs on the 99's first...
Old bean, paaalease

 

[Seth_L]

Geoff,
I think you'll have to go fight with the infidels on Ubid for your own.
The irony is that despite all the pairs of speakers I've bought none of them compare to what I have in my car. I think the component set that's in my car is even better than any of these towers. Maybe I need to DIY some bookshelf speakers with the same drivers.
Seth

 

[Philip Hamm]

Seth,

You'd probably get your money's worth.

I got my 1.6s set up and my first impression is I'm underwhelmed. They met my expectations and will definitely fit the bill, but man are they lacking midrange (and in my experience sweeter midrange is not something to expect from break-in). They are good speakers, particularly for the money that they can be had ad uBid, and pretty, but not very accurate.

 

[Paul Clarke]

I keep telling people...get the 97's!!!!!
They have been around FOREVER (as in time-tested) and are a classic. But folks just seem to want NEWER, BIGGER, BETTER, LOUDER.
JUST KIDDING!
Actually Phil, I strongly suspect the 1.6's 'suffer' from the close proximity of the mid and woofer drivers. Although housed in separate compartments I've never been a fan of the close array design. But that's just me.
Give them some more time and devote more energy if necessary towards optimal placement. Have you run any soundstage and imaging trials with the tweeters?

 

[Geoff L]

Wow Philip
This was the last thing I thought you might find a problem with. Though i've never listened to the 1.6's, I don't remember reading anything here from 1.6 owners speaking to a lack of, or poor midrange performance.
You might try Paul suggestions and maybe add bi-wiring.
---->
What are you using to power them Philip? ---->
A side note that happened with my 95 Emeralds! One of them came with a mid/woofer wired out of phase from the factory. Speaker connections were on the + &- posts backwards making for some very lousy sound.:frowning: Didn't notice this till I started listening to 2 channel with them as the first week they saw only HT duty.
I hope you can find midrange some place in the 1.6 cabinets.
Regards
Geoff

 

[Seth_L]

Seth,

You'd probably get your money's worth.

I got my 1.6s set up and my first impression is I'm underwhelmed. They met my expectations and will definitely fit the bill, but man are they lacking midrange (and in my experience sweeter midrange is not something to expect from break-in). They are good speakers, particularly for the money that they can be had ad uBid, and pretty, but not very accurate.

Hmm... I think mine sound pretty balanced. Perhaps play with room placement (they are picky). Also they may sound different when broken in. I don't have my Behringer Ultracurve yet, so I can't measure them to see how flat they really are, but from my comparisons to headphones and my various other speakers (both cheap and not) I'd be hard pressed to agree with you about them lacking midrange.

Seth

 

[Philip Hamm]

They may sound better when broken in, true, and with better placement. That's why I was careful to point out that those were my first impressions. I am going to experiment with placement, but for dinner music, the primary mission of these things, placement isn't very important.

What are you using to power them Philip?

An old Philips FR930 analog DPL receiver in stereo mode. Nice receiver actually, it was the heart of my system in my pre-Dolby Digital LaserDisc days and sounds fantastic with reserves of power galore.

I bought these speakers mainly for aesthetic reasons honestly. I have my stereo in the living room on a TV stand that I can't wait to get rid of. The Aiwa MiniSystem speakers fit on either side of the receiver perfectly, but they're ugly as heck. I'm getting married in the fall and have deliberately been avoiding buying any nice furniture for myself over the years because I wanted to do that together with my future spouse. Well now's the time and the TV stand has to go, as do the Aiwa speakers. But we're not ready to sacrifice dinner music so some elegant looking speakers were a must. I think that for the price I could not have done better, and these will sound fine playing 50s bee-bop when we're having dinner. Unfortunately I don't see optimal placement being a long term goal.

 

[Mike D.]

So these speakers are really going that cheaply on UBID, huh? The Infinity's too? WOW! I just figured the auctions were being bid up in the closing minutes, like what happens so often on E-bay, I should have watched more closely!
Now, can I get approval from my chief financial officer (aka/wife)! Hey, I have some sports (baseball/basketball/etc) cards from early 1990's and before, anyone want to trade?