1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Westworld (HBO)

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Adam Lenhardt, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Messages:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    728
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Dial
    Many MUDS actually pre-date Pac-Man. They have been around since the 70s!
     
    Stan likes this.
  2. Paul D G

    Paul D G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Like Ron I prefer to watch and take things at face value. I don't like to over analyze unless I pick up on something specifically while watching the show.

    I find it interesting that the park has opportunities for guests to take part in an adventure: the old man needing help finding treasure, joining the military, picking up the can from the girl - all these lead you to a different storyline. However, based on the premier, it seems like everything resets itself every day. As if your adventure was only good for the day. That falls flat for me. I would think a storyline should be good for a week.

    Once a guest realizes he can shoot or do whatever s/he wants to the bots it seems to me this would kill the fun of the park. There will always be the people who just do what they want, randomly killing then laughing it off as they walk down the street. Likewise the idea that the bots can't injure you. This takes out all the excitement of a shootout, like they had when they tried to pull the updated bots out of the park.

    Maybe I'm overthinking but this is what goes through my mind when I watch these. If the girl is going to return to town every day to drop her can so a handsome stranger can be prompted to interact and follow her storyline, then her storyline can't last more than a day.
     
  3. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    16,031
    Likes Received:
    18,735
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    I don't think we necessarily know that killed bots return the next day, I think there was probably some time compression there for the sake of effective montage. My take from the episodes so far is that the park has "storylines" which guests can alter through their actions, but that they try to stick to them. And that people enter the park and go to different areas and don't just stay in the same place. So my guess is that if a robot was killed in a barfight, that robot probably wouldn't return until all of the people who witnessed or participated in his death had moved on to different areas. I think they do as much as possible to protect the integrity of the storylines - one of the behind the scenes guys in the second episode I think (forgot his name) made a point of how difficult it was to stage that shootout in town ahead of schedule because the storylines they had mapped out in advance weren't ready for that to happen yet. If they care that much, I'm guessing that they don't let robots go and hang out in places where the story had them just being killed.
     
  4. Chris Will

    Chris Will Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    Real Name:
    Chris WIlliams
    I assumed that the park was an actual location somewhere out west but, after seeing the second episode I'm not sure anymore. The 2 new guest characters (forget their names), both walked down a hall after getting there clothes and gear, through a door and, were suddenly on a moving train in the middle of the old west. Seems to me that the environment must be some kind of virtual environment, I don't know how else they could explain that transition.
     
  5. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 1999
    Messages:
    19,592
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Gulf Coast
    Real Name:
    Tony D.
    It's not always a guest that picks up the can.



    Yeah, I mentioned that a few posts back.
    Something is afoot.
     
  6. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 1999
    Messages:
    19,592
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Gulf Coast
    Real Name:
    Tony D.
    To answer my own question I think that MiB has his own game designed just for him.
    He appears to be a VIP guest of sorts and gets unencumbered access to the Park.
     
  7. Stan

    Stan Producer

    Joined:
    May 18, 1999
    Messages:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    It's nice to be so dense occasionally (I'm insulting myself).

    Thought you were saying MI-6 all this time, like a James Bond film, and wondering WTF are you talking about.

    Going through some of the earlier stuff and came across John Steffens' post where he mentions the "Man in Black". Well, we're all allowed our Homer Simpson moments :D
     
    JohnS likes this.
  8. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Messages:
    3,370
    Likes Received:
    728
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Dial
    The construction of the scene in which Dr. Ford transitioned from the workshop to Westworld seemed to show some sort of elevator. This occurs at around 31 minutes into the episode by my PVR's count. Dr. Ford is in a sub-level (level 25?), and on the left side of the frame there's a "subway" tube in which we can see (I assume) transports zooming past. Dr. Ford is lifted up and the scene transitions into the outskirts of Westworld ("Nowhere Land"). At the end of the episode, Dr. Ford is reviewing Sizemore's newest narrative; after tearing it apart, he answers Sizemore's question, "isn't there anything you like about it?" by saying, "what size are those boots?" We then cut to Dr. Ford and Bernard Lowe walking in Nowhere Land. One overall takeaway from these scenes is that Westworld is not a virtual environment, but a very real one--Dr. Ford is wearing the cowboy boots (for the terrain) and Lowe is wearing a ball cap (for the sun).

    These are the sorts of clues smart storytellers like Nolan use to avoid having characters spout off entire scenes of exposition and explanation.

    Additionally, in the opening scene, we have William and Logan riding the transport car. The size and speed would appear to match the transports we see later in Dr. Ford's elevator scene. When William and Logan arrive, we get an establishing shot showing a platform next to what appears to be the rock face of a Westworld mountain. Maybe this is simple dressing for newly arriving guests, but I would argue it's another clue that the platform and "staging area" are in (and under) Westworld. William and the blonde guest affairs lady (I forget her name, and I'm not yet sure if she's a host) ascend an escalator--yet another subtle indication the platform and staging area are below Westworld. The two chat briefly, and then we cut to the dressing room scene. The director doesn't use a traditional L or J-cut here to indicate the dressing room is located near the escalators, but, instead, uses music and camera movement to portray the same thing. As the two exit the frame to the left, the camera pulls in on the large viewscreen/wall displaying the Westworld logo. As we cut to the dressing room, the camera continues this forward push into the room, toward the knife display case. The music continues over the cut. Thus, the viewer is meant to conclude that the arrival platform/escalator and the dressing rooms are near each other.

    Lastly, we have the key part in William's introduction that shows (in my opinion) that the Westworld is real and not a simulation, and that the guests arrive and dress below but near Westworld. We see William choose between the white and black hats, and walk down a short corridor to the ornate wooden door set against the glossy white hallway. He opens the door and passes through onto what we later learn is a train. The shot changes from behind William to in front, and just after he closes the door, we see the white hallway through the frosted glass of the door, and it literally drops away! When we see Logan exit his dressing room hallway a few moments later through the same door (he's zipping up his fly), we see the same thing: the hallway drops away and the train car appears to be rising. Just as William is asking Logan "how do we get into the park," the entire car starts shaking and appears to exit a tunnel into Westworld proper.

    So, what do we take away from this? My best guess based is that the guests arrive on the platform deep below the surface of the park, but at some point outside the playing area. They ascend via escalators, walk a short distance to their respective dressing rooms. As guests get changed (or screw around with the guest relations personnel), they are loaded onto a transport/train which stops at the few dressing room "floors" as it ascends to the surface. There aren't likely many dressing room floors, because this would require making some guests (all of whom are paying tons of money) to walk a lot further and ride a lot more escalators. When William and Teddy arrive, we see there are only a handful of guests arriving. It's safe to assume maybe 10 or so guests per platform and thus per arrival train. It all works together like a great machine, and it's seamless to the guests. Anyway, the guests are picked up by the train, and, once everyone is picked up, it rumbles to surface and exits the tunnel, en route to the centre of Westworld

    Sorry for the long post, but this is the sort of stuff I look for when watching.
     
  9. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 1998
    Messages:
    6,735
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Re: the guest's transition to Westworld....

    I was going to post something to that effect, but Josh's post (Dial) did a much better job of providing an explanation than the rubbish I was typing. :thumbsup:

    - Walter.
     
  10. Message #90 of 374 Oct 12, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
    JohnS

    JohnS Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Real Name:
    John Steffens
    Does anyone else think that Delos corporation and the theme park aren't on Earth? Or that the outside guests are coming from another planet and Delos and theme park are on Earth.
     
  11. Chris Will

    Chris Will Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    Real Name:
    Chris WIlliams
    Great post Josh, now I have to go back and watch that scene again. Sounds like a good explanation.

    JohnS, I haven't picked up on that, are you seeing something that hints at being on another world? I just assumed that it was in the middle of no where out west, plenty of empty space out west that could be used.
     
    Stan likes this.
  12. Paul D G

    Paul D G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    I'm a little confused why people think WestWorld would be a virtual environment. I would think the scenes of them maintaining the robots, etc, and certainly Anthony Hopkins conversation with an older bot would demonstrate this was a real world environment.

    Personally I see this as taking place in the distant future where people can relieve the days of the wild west. A place where only the wealthiest of people can attend.
     
  13. Message #93 of 374 Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    JohnS

    JohnS Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Real Name:
    John Steffens
    Supposedly the show takes place in the year 2080-2090. That's what I remember reading.
    The Delos globe in the sub-basement doesn't look like Earth.
    If you go on the official show's website and bring up the entire map, there is so many different types of untouched terrain.
    Even very quick still shots of exterior shots look Mars or different type of planet looking rocky terrain.
    Also the employees don't leave at the end of the day and stay for an extended period of time before actually going home.
    Is that because home is far away and isn't possible to go home daily?

    But the one theory I read which I really love is that especially in episode 2 is that we are seeing multiple time lines.
    And that Ed Harris (The Man in Black) and William (Guest in the white hat) are the same person.
    So with William, were seeing his "flashbacks" (or the thirty years prior that MIB refers to)
    There are a few hints to support this but you really have to look and pay attention.
    And I still say that Mesa Gold the decompression chamber is using the leaving guests in someway to make them or turn them into future hosts.
     
  14. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,711
    Likes Received:
    3,891
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Sam Favate
    I enjoyed the second episode, but there is still a sense of not knowing what is going on, which is frustrating. Also, the show is deadly serious. I guess I shouldn't be surprised - with JJ Abrams' and Jonathan Nolan's names on this, it's inevitable that there would be an overwhelming sense of mystery. That's going to grow old really, really fast.

    Also, a little levity wouldn't hurt, and would go a long way to making the characters endearing.

    The comparisons to Game of Thrones are ill-considered, if you ask me. Thrones was pretty straightforward about its story, and had plenty of levity.
     
  15. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 1998
    Messages:
    6,735
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    I believe the comparisons to GoT have more to do with the idea that it is going to be the next big series for HBO in terms of scale and potential popularity. You could make an argument for the types of content being presented as well, in terms of the sex and violence.

    - Walter.
     
    TravisR likes this.
  16. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    33,433
    Likes Received:
    10,453
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    The basement of the FBI building
    Yeah, I'm sure HBO is desperately hoping that Westworld can become their next big show because once Game Of Thrones is gone, they won't have any popular shows left.
     
  17. Stan

    Stan Producer

    Joined:
    May 18, 1999
    Messages:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Such a perfect typo. I'd love to "relieve" myself of the wild west. Other than this, I can't stand westerns, even Dr. Who did one, I skip it every time.
     
  18. Joe S

    Joe S Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    110
    The idea that William and the Man in Black are the same person occurred to me while watching the episode the first time. I did watch it a second time but I wasn't looking for any hints. I'll see if I can catch it again before the new one Sunday.
     
  19. Message #99 of 374 Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    JohnS

    JohnS Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Real Name:
    John Steffens
    They say one of the hints is that when William and his "friend" arrive by train, Teddy isn't on that same train, which is part of his storyline.
    So it could mean that this is happening before Teddy is created and brought into the storyline.

    The other more obvious one is the "begging me to stay" line.

    There is another one where there's a parallel with William/MIB and Delores and her dropped can.
     
  20. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,711
    Likes Received:
    3,891
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Sam Favate
    Yes, but one of the things that made GoT a massive hit was that it was accessible - the humor and fairly straightforward story made it so. As good as it is, WW is lacking in those departments.
     

Share This Page