West Wing 9/24/2003

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Roberto Carlo, Sep 25, 2003.

  1. Roberto Carlo

    Roberto Carlo Second Unit

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    Is it me or was last night's episode better without Sorkin than with him? The pacing seemed better and while the subject matter was grim, there was little, if any, of "aren't-we-profound" tone that characterized the show over the past two seasons.

    It did a nice job of building the tension. It had me on the proverbial edge of my seat. Bad news: I think Zoey is dead.

    Good news: Annabeth Gish is the oldest Bartlett daugher.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. David Williams

    David Williams Cinematographer

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    I don't know... Without any of that snappy dialogue, I was bored out of my skull. John Goodman kept it mildly interesting. This pretty much ends my quest to get back into the show since jettisoning it at the beginning of S3 (I did not take Mrs. Landingham's departure well).

    If they want to succeed without Sorkin, they really need to find a way to inject a bit more of the series humor (hard, I know, during a kidnapping crisis... but even in the worst of life, humor happens) and to replicate the famed Sorkin dialogue pattern.
     
  3. Ivan Lindenfeld

    Ivan Lindenfeld Second Unit

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    When I noticed that John Wells wrote it I started thinking...pay attention to see if this is any good, John Wells wrote it. And I was keeping in mind that Sorkin did not.

    I thought it was a good hour of television, but it wasn't The West Wing. It was easier to follow without Sorkins writing, but I liked that it was hard to follow the dialogue. It was worth it to listen hard.

    The reason for my initial comment is that I don't think his track record is great lately. I mean, Presidio Med? [​IMG]

    Good plot, political intrigue was mostly there, I'll be back next week to see if Zoey is dead or alive. But without Josh and Donna's banter it wasn't a home run.

    I do not miss Rob Lowe. I have nothing against Rob Lowe personally, I just don't think he can act worth a shit. He has done some good acting on TWW, though. The previews for his new show tell me that this was a fluke. [​IMG]

    Was it me or did Stockard Channing lose weight? She looked pretty good, not that I could tell most of the time because many of her scenes were underlit on purpose.

    DId anyone else think that Admiral Fitzwallace acted out of character? He was 100% gung ho. He has not been 100% gung ho in the past, he showed restraint and consideration. He seemed re-written.

    Oh, I enjoyed it. There are subtle differences, that's all I am saying. Let's see how a non-event episode plays out.
     
  4. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport Cinematographer

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    I think Wells said that they weren't going to do the long monolgues that Sorkin was known for because no one can write like him. I haven't seen the episode yet (I taped it). Considering the durth of good shows I will take what I can get.

    At least Angel starts next week.
     
  5. Thomas H G

    Thomas H G Screenwriter

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    This was one show I was waiting for the premeire (other than Alias) to find out what happens. Enjoyed the show and it looks like some major turbulence is ahead with King Ralp at President.

    I hope Zoey isn't dead, I was feeling for the Bartlets.

    Yea I noticed the dialogue was a bit different, and I'm hoping its only because of the subject matter. I don't expect it to be on par with Sorkin's work, but try to get it close.
     
  6. Ken Chan

    Ken Chan Producer

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    Regarding Zoey, in the previews for next week they have some video of her, and it looks like she's holding a newspaper, so I'm guessing she is still alive, at least for now.

    //Ken
     
  7. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

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    I thought it was awful. The ER version of the West Wing. The opera at the end felt really forced.

    I'll watch until the Zoe storyline is over, then I'm done with it.
     
  8. Henry Gale

    Henry Gale Producer

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    Yeah, I miss Sorkin too.
    One thing, the Godfather did the scene with Mass intercut with revenge killings. I don't need to see it again.
     
  9. Michael*K

    Michael*K Screenwriter

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    The ending was too melodramatic. I think the series will take a nosedive without Sorkin at the helm. No tongue-in-cheek humor. No witty rapid-fire dialog and I expect to see a lot more of the aforementioned melodramatics each week. Up next...Zoe's death forces Abby to hit the bottle, Jed to have an MS relapse and Charlie to become addicted to Valium. [​IMG]
     
  10. PhilipG

    PhilipG Cinematographer

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  11. Roberto Carlo

    Roberto Carlo Second Unit

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    The lack of "Sorkin-esque" rapid-fire patter shouldn't come a a surprise given the subject matter of the episode. Having Donna and Josh do their verbal thing would have seemed inappropriate, IMO.

    THe monolouges Wells referred to were, IMO, what was bringing the show down. THe quintessential monlouge was the "Isaac/Ishmael" post-9/11 episode -- possibly the worst West Wing ever.
     
  12. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport Cinematographer

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    Did Sorkin get fired or did he quit. What I've read lately sounds like he was forced out.
     
  13. Henry Gale

    Henry Gale Producer

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    Sorkin & Schlamme are gone and I was under the impression they were forced out. It's for the best, we don't need talented award winning creaters, writers, directors, thumbing their nose at society by using mushrooms recreationally
     
  14. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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  15. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport Cinematographer

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    If you are dying to know what happens to Zoe:

    I've read spoilers, since I am switching to Angel next week, that she is alive and free by episode seven. I suspect she'll be freed a few episodes before.
     
  16. Chad R

    Chad R Cinematographer

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    The drama was still there, although the sparkling dialogue was gone. I'm still not convinced that Sorkin's departure is a done deal as I'm sure that he discussed how he planned to get out of the Zoe storyline last year around the writer's table, and Wells is just borrowing some of those ideas.
     
  17. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    Actually I thought that the writing was poor (and not just the missing snappy dialogue, which might be stylistic, while we are almost mourning for Zoe). To cite only one example, the First Lady reading the President the riot act for not including her in a decision of State (to kill the ambassador) was not only out of character, but evidence of writer’s taking an easy way to set up yet another marital conflict to be played out in the weeks and months ahead.

    I do like Goodman’s character though.
     
  18. John_Lee

    John_Lee Supporting Actor

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    What's with all the pining for the 'snappy dialog?' Here's a pseudo-Sorkin fix for you guys.

    A: When I tell you what I'm going to tell you, you will not believe me.

    B: So tell me.

    A: I could tell you, . . . but you won't believe me.

    B: I believe that.

    A: You'd HEAR my words, but you would not believe their portent.

    B: Tell me already.

    A: I'm just saying. You say you believe me when I tell you that you won't believe what I'm about to say. But I don't think you've quiet grasped the unbelieveability of my pending statement.

    And so on, and so on.

    All TIC, I assure you. [​IMG]
     
  19. David Williams

    David Williams Cinematographer

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  20. Chad R

    Chad R Cinematographer

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    Yeah, but she was a grieving mother and she learned that there may be a direct correlation between what Bartlet did and the kidnapping of her baby daughter. When presented with a crisis , such as a death or any loss of a child by whatever means, people often review anything that might have prevented it, examine it and blame someone.

    Not to mention that she and Bartlet have an incredibly open relationship and she feels that not only is this a betrayal, but an illegal one that led to the kidnapping of her child. She may not have security clearance officially, but something this major, a decision that could have affected their lives in many other ways besides a kidnapping, should have been disclosed to her--or at least she feels that way.
     

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