WEST SIDE STORY - OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE (1 Viewer)

[Michel_Hafner]

I'm hearing "Break it up you punk suckers, cut it out".

 

[Persianimmortal]

No, I have the Blu-ray and I can hear what's being said. Others are hearing what they think they're hearing but I sincerely hope that no one here is suggesting that someone inserted a word into the sound mix that has never been there before. I REALLY hope no one is suggesting that.

I agree that it's one thing to claim the discovery of a possible swear word in a movie, another to claim that it's been deliberately put there. As the saying goes, it's always best to assume incompetence over malice.

I'm still puzzled as to how anyone who listens carefully to the lines can't distinguish that two separate people are talking, and the offending word only seemingly occurs when one talks over the other. It's clearly accidental. If it were deliberate, it's one of the silliest and lamest instances of someone trying to hide something offensive in a movie ever.

Furthermore, what exactly can Fox do about this? Issue a recall? Create an entirely new master? Let's face it, of all the possible problems with Fox transfers, this rates way below anything else. I can understand the OP being confused about what sounds like a swear word, but what is the ultimate outcome he expects out of all this?

 

[willyTass]

no doubt about it , the C sucker was spliced there. Thanks Tyler

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Well, let's face it. We'll never know if there was a deliberate change or not. But certainly the cocksucker reference is there. And it may have existed in some form for ages.
But really, it's a pretty insignificant transitory thing and not worth anyone getting their knickers in a knot. Amusing more than anything. And maybe it's just a freak aberration of a couple of lines of dialogue getting mixed together. It's not worth pursuing, but it's pretty clear now that the original poster DID hear what he thought he heard.

 

[JohnMor]

I have no idea what people are hearing, but I can say definitely that it isn't on my disc, nor is it in the wav file above.

The only theories I can offer are: 1) that people are more inclined to hear a similar confluence of sounds as that word, which has become so commonly used today that even people who don't use the word themselves have it in their immediate consciousness. I wish I had a nickel for every time it was used in each episode of Deadwood. 2) There are some discs out there that have been altered (but the above wav clearly was not taken from one of them). Perhaps after the Overture fade-out issue was fixed? (My blu-ray is from the first pressing; I never got the corrected one.) Or they're bootleg discs.

I believe it's more likely theory #1. But if it IS #2, can someone please post a wav of the offensive language. Because the wav above isn't it.

 

[Wayne_j]

I watched last night and heard what the OP heard.

 

[Paul Penna]

I listened to the WAV file a numerous times through headphones, and here's what I found:

Two distinct voices rise above the general cacophony. The first is high pitched and yelling. The second quite is different tonally, lower-pitched and vocalized more as a growl or snarl.

First voice: "Break it up, you punks... cut it out!" The "P" of "punks" (the technical term in phonetics is voiceless bilabial stop) is notably emphatic, deliberately so: think of someone shouting "POW" as opposed to, for example, just saying my name in normal conversational tones, as in "I met Paul coming through the door."

Second voice: Two separate vocalizations: the first, and partially overlapping, between "Break it up" and "punks," the second immediately after "punks."

So the alleged expletive arises from the two sounds coming from the second voice. The first sound is indistinct, as if someone is growling a contemptuous "ahhhh!" in a descending pitch. I couldn't hear if it began with a hard "C" sound (voiceless velar stop) because of the overlapping of the other voice. The second sound is two syllables, emphasis on the first. The first syllable begins with a fairly distinct "S" sound; the second syllable trails off at the end, but begins with what could be heard as a voiceless velar stop, as in a hard "C."

So: the second voice utters sounds that have both the plausible cadence and some of the phonemes of the ostensible phrase. But other phrases can as well, not to mention separate utterances that just happen to associate coincidentally. So I remain unconvinced, leaning heavily on the negative side, but I can understand why some could interpret what's heard as being the offending phrase (note how delicate I'm being). For what it's worth, I detected nothing that sounded like editing or interpolation, and I'm highly dubious that an actor of the time would ad lib like that, even in the heat of shooting such a raucous scene, much less be reciting from the script.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I have no idea what people are hearing, but I can say definitely that it isn't on my disc, nor is it in the wav file above.

I do hear it on the WAV file, i know it's not really being said but i hear it as the original poster describes it, yes it's an illusion, still i hear it, i have been reading up on hearing loss and what it can do to peoples perception of sound when you get words mixed together at different frequencies, i believe the reason some people hear it and other people don't is related to hearing loss, i have tested my hearing using the various online facilities available and i always end up with being able to hear upto 13KHZ, or 13,000HZ.

I wonder if the people not hearing it have far better hearing and the people hearing it have some hearing loss.

P.S. What do the little Oscars represent next to our avatars, i presume it's related to post count.

 

[John Hermes]

P.S. What do the little Oscars represent next to our avatars, i presume it's related to post count.

I don't know what the little Oscars mean either, but Sacheen Littlefeather accepted one of them for me.

 

[ROclockCK]

How can anyone not find this thread amusing...however weirdly so at times?

 

[JohnMor]

Malcolm, that is an excellent point. And it could be a combination of reasons, of which that may be one.

John Hermes, that is the best post in the entire thread!

 

[AnthonyClarke]

So maybe the venerable Goon Show was right ....

It's all in the head, you know.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

So the two separate anecdotes about the wives who heard the offending phrase without any preconceived notion didn't wash with you, Joe?

No. In fact, this is a perfect example. You believe the anecdotes about the wives, but in reality, we have no way of knowing if the anecdotes are fictitious to prove a point. I'm not saying they are -- I'm saying we don't know.

If you don't listen closely, it vaguely resembles the offensive phrase. If you listen closely, it's obvious what's really being said. So even if the anecdotes are true, they don't mean anything in the face of that unpopular concept known as reality. It's much more exciting to think of lights in the sky as alien spacecraft as opposed to mundane things like planets, weather balloons, birds, etc.

But I'll tell you what. If it's really important to you that the phrase was said in WEST SIDE STORY, go for it, and enjoy yourself.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Want the bottom line? It doesn't really matter what you "think" you hear - the line is "Break it up, you punks! Now cut it out." That's really the end of the story, isn't it?

Evidently not on this planet! Homo sapiens is distinguished for three things: Walking upright, having opposable thumbs, and believing any stupid nonsense he needs to believe.

Also, what a person hears tells us something about the person. I can't imagine anyone from my mother's generation hearing that word there, because it wasn't part of their lives. The wives who did hear that word just might have dirty minds, you know?

By the way, if I may, I hereby nominate this as the worst thread on HTF so far in 2014, and I'm embarrassed that I participated in it due to my unending quest for truth, justice and the American way.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Worst thread on HTF? No way! I nominate we make it a sticky. It's structured like a Hollywood movie... a lone man's struggle to discover the truth, the mockery he faces along the way, his moment of redemption when the WAV file is posted, and now we have a cliffhanger ending - will Fox confess to their awful crimes, will this conspiracy be busted wide open?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'm hearing exactly what Paul Penna eloquently stated above. I hear two different voices, and overlapped, each contributes a sound that together could be easily mistaken for "cocksucker" -- it definitely sounds close to being that, but as I listen, I can hear distinctly that it's actually two things overlapping and not one voice saying that one word. I haven't watched the movie for a while, but if I heard this dialogue mix while seeing only Krupke speaking (I can't remember if the shot is on him or not), I think my brain would have discarded the proximity of the sounds and heard the line as written. Which may be what it's been doing all these years.

Perhaps in remixing the audio for the Blu-ray, some of the separation between the two voices was lost or distorted in a way to combine them. Back in the day, I watched a hand-me-down VHS copy of this (the original two tape edition, because they didn't have 2 1/2 hour tapes then) until I practically wore it out, and I never once misheard it this way. I wish I had that tape for comparison, oh well.

 

[Mike Frezon]

No. In fact, this is a perfect example. You believe the anecdotes about the wives, but in reality, we have no way of knowing if the anecdotes are fictitious to prove a point. I'm not saying they are -- I'm saying we don't know.

If you don't listen closely, it vaguely resembles the offensive phrase. If you listen closely, it's obvious what's really being said. So even if the anecdotes are true, they don't mean anything in the face of that unpopular concept known as reality. It's much more exciting to think of lights in the sky as alien spacecraft as opposed to mundane things like planets, weather balloons, birds, etc.

But I'll tell you what. If it's really important to you that the phrase was said in WEST SIDE STORY, go for it, and enjoy yourself.

Joe: You need to read the posts in this thread a little more closely--especially mine.

Nowhere did I write that I believed the phrase was used in the film. Just that after listening, I could certainly understand why the OP started the thread. I wholeheartedly believe that it was a strange circumstance in the editing mix which has lead to the mondegreen which has been under discussion here.

And as for whether or not the anecdotes about the wives hearing the phrase are true, I was the first to write such an anecdote so I know for fact that at least one of the stories is true because I was there.

If you choose not to believe me that is your prerogative.

Now, on the other hand, if you want to start casting aspersions on my wife, you and I may have a problem.

 

[Cine_Capsulas]

I'm hearing exactly what Paul Penna eloquently stated above. I hear two different voices, and overlapped, each contributes a sound that together could be easily mistaken for "cocksucker" -- it definitely sounds close to being that, but as I listen, I can hear distinctly that it's actually two things overlapping and not one voice saying that one word.

Same here.

 

[John Maher_289910]

So now we're going to fight over a word that doesn't exist? This thread is really one for the books!

 

[Mike Frezon]

This thread is actually pretty typical for the Home Theater Forum.

The OP stated a concern--of which with due diligence he took to the studio.

The issue was discussed here--and pretty quickly figured out.

And the discussion included a fair amount of good humor and, unfortunately, some not-so-good-natured comments.

Yup. Pretty much par for the course.