Went looking for a TV at the Good Guys last night.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Norris, Dec 13, 2003.

  1. Norris

    Norris Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I've been reading lots of reviews about a big screen LCD, plasma, DLP, and LCoS, and it was time to go see what's out there in my area. First off, I went to the GG because they just started, as of last night, a 36-month, no interest plan! Usually it's only 24 months or less. Anyways, from my reading I've concluded that:

    Plasma is overpriced for the quality that you get, the price is so high because of the "hip" factor (being thin and able to be hung on a wall). Burn in can be a problem with the majority of 4:3 programming available. Deep black is not there.

    LCD cannot produce deep black either. And viewing angle is limited. NOT suitable for fast actions, and I've lots of action movies. Burn in is also a concern.

    DLP has no burn in issue. Very good picture from what I've seen in stores. (GG does not carry any DLP!) Price is lower than plasma, it's comparable to LCD.

    LCos has the best picture, supposedly, I haven't seen any in store, but it's the newest technology and thus very expensive.

    So, I decided that I want a DLP monitor, and will have to go to a different store. Also, the salesman at GG told me that DLP viewing distance is important, the farther away you are the worse the picture appears. Is this true?

    Thanks for all comments,
     
  2. MikewL

    MikewL Extra

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    I mostly agree with your summary, but I contend that things are not as "black and white" as you state them. To say LCD is "NOT suitable for fast action" is a bit over the top. I watch lots of sports and action movies on my Hitachi 60v500 and I think it looks great.

    Along the same lines, beware of the many documented issues with DLP. If you are not sensitive to them, you will be very happy with DLP, but if you see rainbows like I did (for instance), forget it.

    The advice I offer is to make sure your shop has a good return policy. I watched the DLP TV in a couple of stores for several hours without seeing any issues. Within a week of having the TV in my house, I was ready to return it.
     
  3. FrancisD

    FrancisD Auditioning

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    I had not heard that 'rainbows' could be an issue with DLP RPTV's? I thought that was only with front projection DLP?
     
  4. MikewL

    MikewL Extra

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    Actually, you have it backwards. Most of the front projection DLP's use 3 chips, which means they show all three colors at the same time and don't have the potential for rainbows. The RPTV's use one chip with a color wheel, which is the problem.

    I'm kinda thinking that I'll wait until 3-chip RPTV's are widely available and affordable to go back to DLP. Besides, I love my Hitachi LCD. I think it has a much more natural look to it. And the 'problems' I keep hearing about with black levels don't bother me. Maybe I don't know what to look for, but in this case, maybe ignorance is bliss!
     
  5. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    ... growing body of DLP mis-information here.

    First of all, DLP "Rainbows" are COMPLETELY independant of FP vs RP. DLP Rainbows are more prevalent on single-chip DLP units with a 1x or 2x color wheel speed. Some newer FP units can be 5x color wheel speed ... few people see rainbows with 5x, but it's possible. It is, of course, impossible to see Rainbows with 3-chp DLP (no color wheel ... but I for one have never seen one) The VAST MAJORIY of FP & RP DLP units are single-chip. Here's a few realistic rules-of-thumb:

    if DLP FP costs < $2000, it's likely single chip, 2x speed.
    if DLP FP costs btwn $3000-7000, it's likely single chip, 5x speed.
    Virtually all RP DLP sets are single chip (720P), 2x speed. This included all the Samsung sets (hugely popular)

    There is a VAST, SILENT majority of DLP owners who don't see rainbows and love their front and/or rear projection DLP units. Some people see them infrequently and could care less. These people often comment that they noticed occasional rainbows in the early days/weeks of ownership, then it went away.

    As much as color wheel speed, Rainbows are due to the tendency of individual viewers to dart their eyes across the screen. This is why a large screen combined with close seating position increases the tendency to see Rainbows. In this scenario, your field of vision or viewing angle is maximized. I believe that DLP owners tend to subconscoiusly "train" their eyes not to dart across the screen.

    As you have noted, any technology has flaws if you are going to relentlessly scrutinize the image. Sometimes we HTF'fers have to just chill out and enjoy the movie.

    Scott

    PS: fixed my typo, Mr. smarty-pants NickSo!
     
  6. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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    Real Name:
    Nick So
     
  7. MikewL

    MikewL Extra

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    I don't know what speed my Samsung DLP was, but it was a new model (Q3 2003), and I guess I'm one of the few people who sees rainbows and can't ignore them.

    Again, buy from someone with a good return policy and watch the TV a lot during that 30 days or so. A lot of the pluses and minuses of these TV's are VERY source/content specific.
     
  8. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Wrong, sorry. Almost all DLPs are single chip, whether they be front or rear projecting. The VERY high-end and expensive units sometimes use 3 chips.
     
  9. Mort Corey

    Mort Corey Supporting Actor

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    Also consider what your main source material is going to be...ie cable, digital cable, HD, NTSC etc. Another consideration is going to be viewing angle. The DLP RP sets I've looked at seemed to be best when viewed where the center of the screen is at eye level....higher or lower and it starts to wash out.

    Good luck on finding an Lcos set....the older Toshiba has been discontinued and the new Phillips seems to have problems staying lit in stores I've visited. Just doesn't seem as if it's quite ready for prime time.

    Mort
     
  10. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    There are any number of crt-based sets with no rainbows, dead pixels, bulb burnouts, or "screen door effect." They have velvety blacks and Burn-in is only a problem if you insist on running them at torch level.

    Any rptv, whether it's lcd, dlp, lcos, or whatever is going to have off-angle problems, crt are no worse than any others.

    Prices are half to maybe 2/3rds of the dlp/lcd sets and pq is better.

    It's not the latest technology but still offers by far the best value.
     
  11. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    to be clear, ALL CRT-based displays lack rainbow, screen door, dithering, bulb burnout and fade out, dead pixels, etc etc etc, and can produce black.
     
  12. Norris

    Norris Stunt Coordinator

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    Great comments! I'm reluctant to get an LCD because if I sit off center, the quality diminishes, my living room is wider than it is deep. Looks like it's down to plasma vs. dlp for me. Most likely I'll get the dlp monitor, since it's a few grands cheaper than plasma.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mort Corey

    Mort Corey Supporting Actor

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    Get the store to demo the DLP with a SD input signal...or have them hook up a VCR and play most any tape. That'll give you a pretty good idea of how things will look at the worst and it'll usually only look better when you get it home. Double check them at off angles like you would likely view in your room...I think you'll find they are quite like LCD in that respect.

    Mort
     
  14. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

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    last i recalled, burn in wasn't an issue with lcd either. i demoed the sony lcd and the samsung dlp and for my own preference the sony had a better picture. the samsung did a better job with black levels but the sony was just ever so slightly behind it in my opinion. sony must be doing something right with their lcd though as i have yet to find a retailer (online or otherwise) who has one in stock or even one who can get one by the end of the month.

    kevin t
     
  15. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Kevin,
    I was also very impressed with the new Sony LCD sets, actually preferred them to the Sammy dlps. There seems to be a bit of a problem with the bulbs on them--check out the rptv forum over at AVS, there are several threads about buzzing noises and no-starts. In any case Sony is on top of the situation, has issued service bulletins.

    The current shortage may be due to a halt in production while they modify the design.

    While I still think one can get more bang for the buck in the current crop of crt based sets, the Sony LCD would be my choice if I were in the market now and had a bit larger budget.
     
  16. MikewL

    MikewL Extra

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    I noticed absolutely no difference in viewing angle between the DLP and LCD TV's. I had the DLP for over a month and then traded for LCD. My lateral viewing angle is from 0 (straight ahead) to about 60 degrees. Now as for verticle viewing angle, both sets really suck. Very important to have your stand the right height for your furniture.

    If I had the whole purchase to do over again, I'd probably do the same thing - start out with DLP. If it works for you, great. If not, try LCD. It's cheaper anyways. If LCD doesn't work for you, try CRT. It's even cheaper. Again, all of these pluses & minues are extremely subjective, don't take anyone's opinion as fact. Not even mine.[​IMG]
     

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