Weight training question

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Jim Mcc, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    What is the best way to "firm up" while I lose weight? Since January I've lost 40 lbs. thru proper diet and walking a total of 1 hour per day. I've also been doing 3 sets of bench presses on M-W-F. Would I "firm up" better if I did bench presses every day(maybe 2 sets) or should I stick to M-W-F(3 sets)? I'm 49 years old if that matters, and I want to lose about 20 more lbs. Thanks for any advice.
     
  2. Julian Reville

    Julian Reville Screenwriter

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    Good for you. Two years ago I went from 210 to 170, but it took me about 8 months. I found that moderate weight training did help, but at my advanced age of 52, I had to take it somewhat easy.

    I typically did arms/chest/back one M/W/F and abs/legs on T/TH/SAT.
    I haven't gained the weight back, but I have been a slacker since I broke my abs and back machine. Need to get that thing welded and get back on the program.

    Good luck to you.
     
  3. mylan

    mylan Screenwriter

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    If you just want to firm up and not get bigger then more reps with less weight is the way to go.
     
  4. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    Fantastic job so far!!!! When you say you want to firm up........not to sound weird but what exactly are you looking to firm up?? Meaning your whole upper body orwhole body? Doing bench is good but you should be doing a full body workout (within reason of course). The #1 thing I would STRONGLY recommend is strengthening your core. This is pretty much abs and back. Do a search for core training and you will find a TON of options. I use an excercise ball for core training and find it the best and cheapest way to do it for me. You may then want to think about getting a decent home gym all in one unit. I use the 250$ Sears/Dicks version of the Total Gym....yes the one on TV you see with Chuck Norris [​IMG]. It looks weird but the thing is FANTASIC. I do a FULL workout of 3 sets of chest, tri's, bi's, shoulders and back and a full core workout on the excersize ball 4-5 times a week. The entire workout takes me 30 minutes. My arobic work comes from golf which I do 3 times a week. May sound lame but if you golf and walk and carry your clubs you know where I am coming from [​IMG]. In January of this year I weighed 180 lbs with 24% body fat. I am 31 years old and only 5'8 and have a small frame. I now weigh 164lbs with 16% body fat. The constant back pain I had is gone as well. I am trying hard as hell to get down to 158 lbs but my arch nemesis in life is the Chinese Buffet............

    Best of luck to you and again....AMAZING JOB so far!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    Thanks guys, but nobody really answered my question. I want to firm up overall, but I'm limited in what I can do due to arthritis in the hips. I know what exercises to do and I use 15-20 reps per set. I'm not looking to get bigger, just firm up overall. Would it benefit me to do less sets of each exercise 6 days per week, or just do 3 sets each 3 days per week? If it doesn't matter, I'll just stick with 3 days per week.
     
  6. Terry-A

    Terry-A Agent

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    at 49 years old you need more recoup time for your body...knock off the bench's at 3 times a week whether it be for tone up or power....bench only 2 times or less a week but make it intense either way you do it.....take it from me i'm 59 years old and im benching over 400 lbs. still.....HAHAAAAaaaaa you kids.......lmao
     
  7. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    That is some pretty important info!! In your OP you stated that you just did chest and wanted to firm up so that threw me off a bit...sorry bout' that. So if you want to firm up everywhere work out the muscles you want and do 3-4 sets with about 12 reps. Start out 3 times a week then maybe increase to 4. Make sure it is a weight you can handle and maintain proper form throughout. I still think you should certainly look into strengthening your core. Doing so is literaly non-impact and can be done with no equipment.
     
  8. Bryan Ri

    Bryan Ri Screenwriter

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    Nice work Jim!

    Do NOT bench every day. When you do your benches, start at a low weight on your first set, and do as many reps as you can. Then, add 5 or 10 pounds to each side and do it again. Then, again, add 5 or 10 pounds to each side and do it again. If you can hit 30 reps on your first set, start with slightly heavier weight

    Try mixing in some tricep exercises as well, either on the same day or off days. Shoulders and back on your T-Th may not be a bad idea either.

    Good luck!
     
  9. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    Another thing that I think is a must for you Jim is to talk to your Doctor. He has your medical history and can send you to a trusted physical thearapist. That person can then go over the excercises that will work out best for you and you body type and have no harm to your body. I used to work out a ton in college but was never satisfied with the results. Recently I messed up my back in a bad car accident and went through months of PT. The physical therapist gave me all of my ideas and workout program and I am more happy now then I was in college. Working out can be much like home theater. What I like or what works for me may not be good for someone else. So far every reply has been different yet solid in advice. Arthritis in the hips can be very rough. A lot of excercises, depending how you do them, can put unwanted pressure on that area. This is why I suggest the PT.
     
  10. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    I started working out like Jim about a month ago, and we seem to have the same goal: lose some weight and firm up.

    A personal trainer put me on the following routine:
    15-20 min of cardio on an eliptical or bike (I use the eliptical, as the standard bike makes my nuts fall asleep, is this common??)

    Series of machines in the gym, 2 sets of 12 reps each (5 arm machines, 3 leg machines.) the weight is all based on barely being able to not being able to finish the second set of 12.

    2 sets of 15 ab crunches on the ab assist bench. (which I have upped to 1 set 20 and as many as I can do in 20 increments after, as my belly is nice and buddah like and could use the extra work.)

    I do this 3 times a week, MWF, he toild me if I wanted to do anymore, to just do cardio on the off days, as the muscles need to rest.

    So far I've lost about 8 pounds.

    They also suggested that I start drinking Whey Protien, as this helps convert the fat to muscle. So I started drinking it in the mornings, and about an hour before I work out on work out days. It's too soon to know if this is actually going to help, as I just started taking it. Anyone who knows about the Whey, I would love the advice.
     
  11. Jason Kirkpatri

    Jason Kirkpatri Second Unit

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    I'm shaking my head right now. Obviously, not at you, at your trainer. Protein does not convert fat to muscle.

    Protein are "building" blocks to repair torn muscle tissue. You induce tears in muscle tissue when you exercise, assuming you expose your muscles to a resistance load beyond their normal capabilities. These tears sometimes "hurt" for a few days afterwards (DOMS) and during this process, you body repairs the damage that you have done. Protein is required to rebuild the muscle tissue.

    Fat is nothing more than stored energy. Energy fuels muscles, yes (i.e. carbohyrdrates), but this energy is not used in a repair function like protein is.

    Sufficient to say that if you diet is not adequate, whey protein shakes may help you in your journey, assuming that your body truly needs the protein if you are exposing yourself to continual muscle overloads. Timing of whey protein consumption is also critical. You breakfast time is good - you're in a catabolic state after awakening so quick absorbing whey protein is a good choice. Your workout timing for your whey protein shake can be reduced to 20 minutes edit: before your workout; whey protein absorbs quickly into our systems.

    Different thoughts on workout consumption from just before (as you are doing), to just after, to both. Personally, I do both with a 2:1 carb protein ratio on the post workout shake.

    Protein does not convert fat to muscle. If it did, everybody would be doing it and world obesity would be solved. [​IMG]
     
  12. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    The best advice given here is to only work out 3 days a week on any body group. As Jason said, your body needs rest in order to repair the micro-tear damage in the muscles. The worst thing you can do is overtrain because it will impede your progress and it will also mentally burn you out (frustration due to no progress), making it harder to keep to an exercise plan. My brother has a degree in athletic training and his best advice is "rest is more important than exercise". Make sure you get your sleep, also.

    I've been on a MWF full body workout (large muscle groups to small, intense core exercises) and diet program for 6 weeks and although I really wasn't fat (6'1", 185), I've lost 2 inches on my stomach, gained 2 inches on my chest, a 1/2 inch on my arms and lost 7 lbs of fat in 6 weeks. I also went from 18% body fat to 14%.

    P.S. About protein. Studies have shown that massive doses of protein are flushed out in urine. The body will only use what it needs to and taking massive amounts of powders will not force the body to use more. Even heavy body builders do not need much more than double the RDA for a male, just "toning up" requires much less. Eat a little more natural protein or a protein bar, the massive dose powders are useless. Others may disagree, but that's what I've read.


    Note: It is impossible to spot reduce fat. You will burn more fat by working larger muscle groups (legs - squats especially) than by doing crunches. All crunches give you is hard muscle under the fat. The fact is, fat is hardest to lose in the spots it collects first - belly and love handles for men; butt, hips and triceps for women. The only thing that will make you lose fat is exercise and calorie reduction. Crunches just give you hard abs, but will not reduce ab fat any more than any other exercise.
     
  13. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    I'm embarrased to say, this is more my lazy explanation. It as explained that the body well take energy (break down) muscles before the fat, so making sure you have protien in your system well cause it to take the energy from your fat cells, as opposed to muscles. I don't know, that's how it was explained to me. My lazy Hulk brain simplifys it to "Protein help burn fat."

    The drink I have has something call triple source whey. It supposdly have one type of protein that is absoberd relativly quickly, a second set that would absorb during the work out and a lower isolate of some type that's good for post workout. The lady who sold it to me explained that if I take this an hour beofre the work out, it well help fuel the muscles and ease pain, which seems to be happening.

    The protien every morning was my idea. I typically start the day with a shot of "Greens". 30-45 minutes later I have a protien drink, followed by breakfast (whole grain bagel or muffin). I wasn't taking anything before, just having a muffin in the morning. So basically, I double uyp the protien on work out days. My main concern with the protien was getting fatter, but I was told that you can't really. you can get heaver with muscle mass, but not with body fat. My thinking is taking the protien as a supplement to help build the muscle with the fat, and than when I'm at about the place I want to be, stop the protein, with the idea that I might loose muscle mass with the excersise, but not gain back fat.

    Make sense or am I being stupid?

    I should point out that my main reason for starting exercising in the first place was the realization that I'd become unbelievably lazy, and a bit of depression allowed me to get to about 230lb on a 5'10 frame. Loosing weight and such is more of a side benifit than just basically improving my health.
     
  14. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    I figure as much, but who doesn;t want rock hard tasty abs? [​IMG]
     
  15. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    The secret to losing fat is (1) Burn more calories through exercise - protein, fat, carb, does not matter, except fat is 8 times the caloric content of protein by weight, and (b) take in less calories. You do this by exercising more and eating less, but you must eat enough to sustain the building of muscle and the exercise. Also, larger muscles burn more calories, so increasing muscle mass helps you keep off fat.

    The particular program I'm on is a 1500-1800 calorie diet per day, 60/20/20 of carb/protein/fat and 1 (yes only 1) set of 8-12 (failure on last rep) of the following:

    Leg curl
    Leg raise
    Squat
    Calf raise
    Bench press
    Seated lat row
    Shoulder pullover
    Lateral arm raise
    Shoulder shrug
    Bicep curl
    Tricep extension
    Resisted crunch (slow, with a pause of 3 sec. in full crunch position)

    All done with minimal rest (30-45 sec) between exercises to get the heartrate raised. I do all 12 exercises in 30 minutes (and then I puke - just kidding).
     
  16. Jason Kirkpatri

    Jason Kirkpatri Second Unit

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    ^ yes. A calorie deficit will lead to fat loss, so long as it's not too drastic (at which point your body goes into starvation mode and begins to accumulate all the energy it can; i.e. fat storage).

    For me, roughly 10% of maintenance calorie surplus is what I run. Yes, my goal is different than yours - gain mass. Anything higher and I get unwanted fat storage. The inverse is true. A 10% reduction from maintenance calories should help you in your goals.

    Maintenance calories - eat normally for seven days (in order to get the weekend in there too as most eat differently on the weekends). Track everything that goes in your mouth - everything. Divide total calories consumed by 7 and assuming that you have not lost or gained any weight, you'll have your baseline caloric intake per day to maintain your present weight. Add or subtract from there. Fitday.com works well and it's free. Others are availabe as well. Weightwatchers is esentially a calorie tracker, but uses "points" instead (much easier than tracking every minute calorie, but not as accurate).

    In my case, my baseline caloric intake is ~4,800 calories per day. In my "growth" stage, I eat about 5,300 calories. When I cut, I go down to 4,300-4,400 calories.

    Happy tracking!
     
  17. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    All of Jeffs info has been pretty miuch right on.

    My suggestion would be to do bench presses only once a week and do some other exercises.
    IMHO you need to break it up and work in the rest of your body. Just doing bench presses isnt going to give you the "tightening" overall results your looking for.

    Also realize that the more muscle you put on , the more calories youll burn - for instance I believe a 5 pound muscle gain will burn a extra 250 (maintenence)calories a day.

    Can you exercise your legs with your bad hips?(I have gout and bad knees and ankles and still do squats- I put a bench just under my butt for safety and use the self spotting rack)

    Concerning protein, Ive found that anything over 15-20 gams per meal will only add to my stomach[​IMG]

    Also guys, change up what your doing. ALL my workprogramming told me that chest triceps and shoulders shoudl be on the same back and biceps and back on the same day. One problem was by the time I got to shoulders, my arms were often too tired to give them a good workout. So I decided to do this instead..... Mon:Chest and Back,Weds:Legs,Friday:Biceps Triceps Shoulders.Stomach is on monday and friday, last thing I do.

    Id also like to say that IMHO nothing will firm u up better than super and drop sets.Give em a try.

    edit:
    Im also going to add this in here for those who want to try. This is really to only be used for 1set! You can do another if not using 100 % effort. But 3 is too much.

    This will work for any exercise but Im going to use bench press as the example here.
    This will involve 3 warmups and one set.

    Lets say I can bench 300 8 times.
    warmup1 100 pounds for 8-12 reps (1 minute stretch between sets)
    warmup2 200 pounds for 8-12 reps
    warmup3 250 pounds for 8-12 reps
    Warmups have no set #s. Its simply a weight and rep that will properly warm you up for the set you have ahead.

    -Set1 - 300 pounds x 8 reps (should be positive failure)
    -12-15 deep breaths
    -same weight for 5 more reps
    -12-15 deep breaths
    -same weight for 3-4 more
    -hold the weight in the finished position(do not lock out)for 20 seconds and lower it - done!

    This is much harder than it looks. The general application will work for all exercises.It can be brutal when using heavier weights. This will get you stronger very quickly. It was designed for natural lifters by a guy who was a student of Mike Mentzer for years and felt that this improved on his theories. I tried it for 2 months and got excellent results. A severe gout attack has kept me out of the gym the past 2 weeks but Im going back next week and continuing with this routine.
    Experiment with weights and reps until you get it right.

    PLEASE BE CAREFUL if you decide to do this guys.


    "whey protein absorbs quickly into our systems."

    A excellent alternative to this is some nice heeping disgusting spoonfuls of lowfat cottage cheese. CC is full of casein which is slow absorbing and especially perfect for before you go to sleep.
     
  18. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Wow! I guess I was right when I said larger muscles burn more calories. I assure you, I'm not even close to that yet. I just wanted to tone up my lazy 41 yr. old body.[​IMG]
     

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