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We are expecting too much from our new equipment. (1 Viewer)

Greg S

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 13, 2000
Messages
976
I think the Outlaw is an amazing piece for what it is (just as others have said) - NOTE: I have not heard the unit.

**DISCLAIMER: Correct me on the issue below if I am wrong as this is what I have found in all my readings on the 950.

I only have one issue (other than appearance but oh well on that) and that is at ANY price point I think its inexcuseable to produce a unit that cannot "retain/memorize" settings based on input but yet its a based on "GLOBAL" settings. Sadly it is this reason and this reason only I that I have disqualifed it from my upgrade path.

I think for what the 950 is (a $900 pre/pro) that it is a remarkable piece that simply will blow you away (again this based on the thousands of posts I have read on this unit, not an actual audition) and it certainly seems to be the most "BANG FOR YOUR BUCK" piece of equipment around. That being said if my one gripe about the unit was changed than there is no doubt in my mind that this would be in my system!

To all Outlaw supporters - ENJOY what you have and don't worry about others.

To all Outlaw nonsupporters - Move along there is nothing for you to see here.

My 2 1/2 cents worth.

Greg
 

Dave Moritz

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Brovo Mike Knapp like most people hear I must agree with you. Very well written post! I feel that we are basically spoiled as human beings anymore. Especially in the audio/video world for those of us who enjoy it day in and day out. I remember when I first got into audio gear that CD's where just coming out. My main source of playback was an Onkyo Integra turntable. We did not have video switching, digital EQ's, multi zone, multi channel, Dolby Digital, DTS, THX re-equalizing chips, line quadrulers, HD TV, DVD, SACD, MCACC on a sesmi seed bun. The only thing you could do at the time was get a high quality two channel pre amp with a solid power amp, intergrated amp or a good receiver. And match this up with a really great set of speakers. This was for the most part the heart and sole of your audio set up. Now the more and more they put into the gear, just like you said. It ends up not being enough, poeple pit one brand against another well this has this and that has that but wait does it have hyperdrive 5.1? I have found myself caught up in this and realize that it is rediculous. Are there a small number of companies pumping out junk? Yes there are a small number of companies putting out pure junk. But most companies out there are putting out really good products and once in awhile there may be a small bug in the software. The quality of the gear and the features of the past three years are mind boggeling. I agree we should pay more attention to the quality of the gear and buy what fits our needs. There are alot of choices out there from Pioneer to McItosh, from standard CD players to DVD/SACD players. What options are we looking for and what is our budget! That is the two main things we should ask ourselves when making a purchas. Then we should go in and listen to many candidates and buy what we like. So again Mike Knapp GOOD JOB :)
 

Larry B

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 8, 2001
Messages
1,067
My interest is 99.9% music, and I spend a heck of a lot of time, and far too much hard-earned money, in pursuit of the best sound I can obtain. But never, and I mean never in my life have I witnessed the emotions, passions and rhetoric associated with the Outlaw 950. As I've stated in the past, if one didn't know better, one would think that the 950 was the cure for all diseases that afflict mankind, not a $900 piece of digital processing audio equiment.
With all due respect, I think a reality check is long overdue.
Larry
P.S. Anyone in the NYC/NJ area is always welcome to come over to my place to listen to some music. :)
 

Mike Knapp

Supporting Actor
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Aug 4, 1997
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644
Real Name
Mike
Well spoken by a man whose preference is for a tube preamp that does nothing but provide volume control in stereo.
It doesnt even do that, it has two separate volume controls, one for each channel. It is as gee-gawless as you can get! :)
Mike
 

Matt Jesty

Second Unit
Joined
May 15, 2002
Messages
390
As I've stated in the past, if one didn't know better, one would think that the 950 was the cure for all diseases that afflict makind, not a $900 piece of diigital processing audio equiment.

With all due respect, I think a reality check is long overdue.

----------------------------------------------------
lARRY, I think we all know why SVS and OUTLAW get special (yes, I know, well deserved) attention here...But once you know what people own and why then you may have insight into their biases/pre-dispositions, and this is the next best thing to eliminating them (the biases)....
------------------------------------
How about a list of ESSENTIAL "less-than-gee-gaw" features?
Some would argue that an 80 hz global x-over is enough,
some would say much more adjustability is very important to sound quality....
 

Al B. C

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 25, 2002
Messages
644
My interest is 99.9% music, and I spend a heck of a lot of time, and far too much hard-earned money, in pursuit of the best sound I can obtain. But never, and I mean never in my life have I witnessed the emotions, passions and rhetoric associated with the Outlaw 950. As I've stated in the past, if one didn't know better, one would think that the 950 was the cure for all diseases that afflict mankind, not a $900 piece of diigital processing audio equiment.

With all due respect, I think a reality check is long overdue.
Well said. The first few times that I cruised this forum I thought it was an infomercial for the "Outlaw 950".

I wasn't sure if you had to either have a 950, or be on the list to get one, in order join this forum. It does look a little strange to someone on the outside looking in.
 

Jeffrey_S

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
206
Sound quality IS first and foremost the most important feature of all. Having said this, I think that many times people post the thought processes that they go through, in making their purchasing decisions. I don't think they intend to complain about a particular product so much, but instead tend to vent their frustration at not being able to justify a purchase since a product may not meet their requirements. They then look to see what others have to say about that thought process of theirs.
Outlaw should be applauded for bringing an apparently great sounding pre/pro to market at a great price. But let's face it, it doesn't have some of the features of much more costly pre/pros that are out there. Pointing this out and stating that that's why your not buying it, is not the equivalent of a complaint IMO.
I also believe that it is valid to bring up points of concern about a product and don't consider this to be complaining either. For example, the AM tuner on the 950 has been reported by atleast a couple of new owners, to exhibit static in its reception. To bring this up on a forum for discussion is only to seek confirmation or rebutal of this issue. The fact that a unit can't remember certain things is also a valid point of discussion.
If done with the proper intent and conduct, all of this can be very constructive and very valuable to people such as myself trying to decide which pre/pro to buy.
Besides, what is the purpose of a forum like this anyway? I'll answer my own question and say the free expression of ones ideas in a given area of interest/obsession. If one of the rules of this forum was that no one could even give the appearance of a complaint in their posts, this place would be boring indead!
Just my opinion.
Jeff
 

Jed M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
2,029
Mike I agree with everything you said. I understand the need for some features, but for people to claim they need something that Outlaw does not provide without even listening to the unit (which is free) confuses me. I also agree with Robert, a 49tx it is not. Its actually about a grand cheaper for the outlaw combo. :)
 

RAF

Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
7,061
The only person qualified to "know differently" would be someone that has experienced both units, otherwise they don't "know" jack.
Bingo, again, EB.

And, to cite two examples:
  1. I put the 950/755/Marantz MA700s up against my Denon 5700 and it was no contest as far as sound is concerned. Not even close. Yes, a high end receiver has a lot of bells and whistles but I jumped off the Denon 5700/5800/5803/5900... train and have not looked back.
  2. Another Beta Tester, Gene Lockaby, is a Lexicon MC-12 owner and he came right out and said how close the two units are in sound. Not a rumor, but a fact from a user of both units. Is the 950 an MC-12 at 1/10th the price? Of course not. The MC-12 has a lot of settings and options that the 950 doesn't have. But does the 950 perform amazingly close to an MC-12 for 1/10 the cost? Gene says so and I have no cause to doubt him.

I'm very happy with my 950, my SVS sub, my Sony VW10HT projector, etc. The price/performance of this type of equipment gives me an amazing bang for my buck.
 

Al B. C

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 25, 2002
Messages
644
Al:
Thank you. It's nice to know there are others who have not yet been possessed.
Larry
Well I am a little possessed, but with my new Sunfire stuff that I bought a couple of months ago.
But to tell you the truth - It hasn't changed my life! :D
 

Mike Knapp

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 4, 1997
Messages
644
Real Name
Mike
Guys,

Im not possessed by this unit. It is a wonderful product and worth way more than its retail price. I will say that I have a Marantz AV9000 (2K pre-pro) that it replaced and the Marantz is not going back in the rack.

So, say what you will about the features, but it does what I need it to and it does it very well. Discussion about features is great and before there are enough Outlaw units available Im afraid that discussion based on paper comparisons are mostly what we will see. That will change with time.

Mike
 

Richard Burzynski

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
466
As to high emotions and comparisons to significantly more expensive gear, I believe it was the Outlaws that advertised it as being comparable to units costing "3 times as much". This advertising lasted for 1-2 years. It got everyone worked up. Expections were/are high. Now the comparisons are coming in from both sides: both positive & negative. It's to be expected.

Mike:
I remember reading that you are high on the DACs in your Sony9000 and in your MSB. How do the 950's DACs compare to these 2 units for Redbook playback?

Rich B.
 

Camp

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 3, 1999
Messages
2,301
if one wants features not provided by the 950 at $900, then they should go spend more than $900 to buy a unit that does have those features
Excellent point. Kind of where I would have gone with my statement if I wasn't so tired :)
 

Mike Knapp

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 4, 1997
Messages
644
Real Name
Mike
My PT DACS are no longer in my HT rig and are now being used in my audio only system so I can not make a direct comparison. My opinion would be based only on my memory. To top it off, I replaced the amp in my HT as well so perhaps I am not really qualified to make a comparison at all.

I do think that the Outlaw could not match 2700 dollars worth of DACS, but that is just speculation on my part.

Mike
 

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