Water Softeners

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Samuel Des, Dec 13, 2001.

  1. Samuel Des

    Samuel Des Supporting Actor

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    Any of you guys/gals hear of this machine?
    http://www.no-salt.com/tech.htm
    I'm thinking of getting a water softener, and it sounds good. The thing that bothers me is that it says that water tests will not show its performance abilities.
     
  2. Kurt B

    Kurt B Stunt Coordinator

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    Not sure if this is for real or under the 'too good to be true' category. I shot the link over to my best friend who owns a well drilling business and does water softeners also. I'm hoping he can shed some light on it, it does sound interesting tho.

    ~Kurt
     
  3. Samuel Des

    Samuel Des Supporting Actor

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    Hey, thanks Kurt. [​IMG] Yeah, it sounds too good to be true. And I'm one of those guys who wants to believe in it!
     
  4. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Producer

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    It's comments like:

     
  5. Tommy G

    Tommy G Screenwriter

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    I went with the Kinetico Water Softening system (kind of pricy though) a little over 8 years ago and I am still on the same hot water heater and seems to be working fine. All of my neighbors have had to replace their hot water heaters so far so I'm hoping that it eventually pays for itself. It also leaves the shower clean and doesn't leave those rust marks.
     
  6. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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  7. Kurt B

    Kurt B Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan,

    My thoughts exactly. How can you NOT see a difference. My water softener makes a big difference. Coupled with a reverse osmosis water filtration system for the water feed to the refridgerator, I'm set.
     
  8. John Besse

    John Besse Supporting Actor

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    Damn Time Warner's Road Runner bastards cut the line to our watersofter a year and a half ago and we never got it replaced. Now our water heater's on its last leg and we need to replace them both.
     
  9. Mike OConnell

    Mike OConnell Second Unit

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    Samuel:

    Let me first state my credentials and then my feelings on the issue:

    Credentials:

    1. BS in Civil and Masters in Environmental Engineering from Iowa State (ranked the top of my class for both). Included extensive research on the design of ion-selective media.

    2. 14-1/2 years experience in the design of municipal water treatment facilities, including: Surface water, groundwater, deslinization, reverse osmosis, softening, membrane filtration, and general pumping and hydraulics.

    3. Member American Water Works Association Board of Directors for the Missouri Section of AWWA.

    My feelings on the matter:

    1. It's a scam.

    2. Hardness in water is defined by the presence or absence of certain multi-valent cations in the water, with the primary being Ca++ and Mg++ (calcium and magnesium).

    3. Softening of water consists of one of the following three mechanisms:

    A. The removal of these cations by raising the pH of the water to above the saturation level of these cations when combined with hydroxides of carbonates, which causes the the Mg or Ca compounds to "settle" out of the water and be removed in the resulting basin residuals. (Often referred to as lime-softening).

    B. The exchange of the Ca++ or Mg++ ions with Na+ (Sodium)or K+ (Potassium) by using an media that is ion-selective for Ca++ or Na++ versus Na+ or K+. Once the media is exhausted of the Na+ or K+ you must regenerate it by backwashing with a saturated solution of Na+ or K+ (Sodium Chloride or Potassium Chloride). Then rinsing with water to return the media back to the proper ion-selectivity. (Oten referred to as ion-exchange softening). Most home softeners work on this principle.

    C. The use of a sacrificial anode that will exchange the anode material for the Ca++ or Mg++ ions. (This is what is used in most water heaters to attempt to keep the hardness from attaching to the water heater and attaching to the anode instead). This is not an efficient enough operation to work for an entire house system.

    In other words, to soften you must somehow exchange the Ca++ Mg++ ions for something else. On a mass balance basis alone the theory presented in the softener add is hogwash.

    Don't buy it!

    Mike
     
  10. Tommy G

    Tommy G Screenwriter

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    Hey John, yet another reason to go with Dishnetwork or DirecTV. [​IMG]
     
  11. Samuel Des

    Samuel Des Supporting Actor

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    Mike - Now THAT is an answer! (And some amazing credentials, I might add [​IMG]
    K, now I know... The Rest Of The Story.
    But man, I spoke with the Culligan guy. He said that I will need to spend at least $800 to $1000 on the Medalist series. (I live alone.) That seems like an awful lot when I think of the $300 Kenmore. The two machines seem to do the same thing, too. Is this a case of "You get What You Pay For?"
    Truthfully, my needs are modest, so i will probably get the Kenmore.
    Thanks again for your replies. Mike, that really was great. I am very appreciative.
     
  12. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Producer

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    Sam, you may also look into renting a softener. I know there are some outfits that do that... look in your phone book.

    Yeah, you pay a monthly fee, but if anything goes wrong, they come and fix/replace it.
     

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