Warner music to be sold... (1 Viewer)

[MikeH1]

Read the article here.

http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/...4.warner.shtml

I really hope it doesn't affect future DVD A releases.

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

Probably will. Buyers are voting with their wallets. DVD-A's sales are sinking; SACD sales are rising, especially since companies are starting to sell hybids only. The good thing is that both formats have the capacity to give us great sound.

I am more concerned that producers will not take advantage and continue to over compress and generally give us cassette sound. If you listen to some newer pop Hi-Res popular music you can hear it coming. Too bad.

But you can never tell....

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I am more concerned that producers will not take advantage and continue to over compress and generally give us cassette sound.

A real possibility...

In talking to record labels execs, I think the music world is beginning to view hirez to be a nice niche with high margin product. Given the state of the rest of the industry, they are supportive. The idea is to migrate more of MP3 generation over time, even if its just a subset of consumers.

What gives me hope is that the number of SACD player owners is widening and a number of big titles are really selling well. The execs see this and they think this is a way to "monetize" their back catalog.

 

[Brian+H]

I talked to an engineer in the business by email a few weeks ago. I won't mention who he is but he's known.
I knew he was very impressed with dsd, and asked him what his collegues thought of it.
He said everyone he's worked with was "knocked out" by dsd.

And he thought sacd has a better possibility for expansion than dvd-a has.

I just bring that up because this guy knows his stuff, and I wanted to hear from someone who actually was in the business and knew what a lot of important people thought.

I hear what your saying Lee about suits wanting to cash in their back catalogs; but suits have a way of screwing things up royally for something like sacd or dvd-a.
Example: The dvd forum releasing that 70 title list of which only about 5 or so anyone wanted lol.

I want to see sales numbers for each format, but they're hard for me to find. Sales are all the execs care about.
Whatever gets them the most sales is where they'll go, obviously.

That's why its strange that Warner (or whatever they will be called) has clinged to dvd-a so strongly. The sales don't back up supporting the format that strongly.
I get the impression that they are holding onto the format with clenched hands. Am I right about that?

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

That's why its strange that Warner (or whatever they will be called) has clinged to dvd-a so strongly. The sales don't back up supporting the format that strongly.
I get the impression that they are holding onto the format with clenched hands. Am I right about that?

Well you have to "Give the people what they want" and right now both formats have deep voids in what is offered. I am looking forward to seeing how the Santana and Vandross DVD-A's will sell. The bean counters will support anything that sells. You also have to spend money "hyping" the product, which isn't being done.

It's actually is a no brainer for me. The algorithm is to obtain an excellent Universal player and buy the Hi-Res product that I wan't. Unless you are a theologian, the differences in formats is neglible in most folks homes.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

A Best Buy store manager told me that pop DVD-A titles are outselling anything in their SACD rack (that is, discs that are marketed as SACDs), but that neither were anything to write home about.

If the music industry goes a direction where we never see another disc like the 'Yoshimi' DVD-A, it will be a sad, sad thing indeed.

 

[LanceJ]

Without going into detail because after three years I'm now tired of doing so, there is again more misinformation here about dvd-audio.

All I will say to people new to the hi-res formats is do your own research on this subject.

LJ

 

[LanceJ]

Unfortunately Mike (St. Clair), when dvd-audio starts to be released in the flipper hybrid format the sales figures will be more difficult to figure out.

LJ

 

[Rachael B]

Michael, I bet sales have regional hot spots...? You might even be able to track them by what brands of DVD players, with which hi-rez capabilities, dominate which locales??? I don't think either format is selling squat here, outside the high-profile hybrids...like da Rolling Bollos, si?

I've only ever seen one person pick up a DVD-A and appear to take it off for purchase in my many excurrsions into Busted Buy. I've seen a few more people shop the SACD's but not that many. The employees tell me that disintrest seems about equal to both formats locally. My own observations back this up.

Maybe it's no coincidence that the last 2 years there have been very few SACD or DVD-A capable DVD players on the floor of either Busted Buy or Circus City in this burg.

I doubt it would help too much if there was a big neon sign at the little DVD-A/SACD section at the local Busted Buy. Joe Sexpack doesn't care about hi-rez. He's busy watching porno on his new $29.87 (Wal-Mart, yes way!) DVD player. Best wishes!

 

[LanceJ]

Here's a theory on dvd-audio player sales & why certain stores may not be stocking them:

Since most people can't hear the difference between hi-res & CD/compressed format sound--or they just don't care--but they do like surround music, they are simply playing their dvd-audio discs using the included Dolby or DTS tracks on their dvd-video players. And, they get to use their receiver's bass management function too. This theory also includes HTiB's.

So why should they waste money (their thinking, not mine) on a new dvd-audio-capable player? >>>I'll bet the store's corporate buyers also think this way and are choosing products accordingly.

LJ

 

[Marc Colella]

Since most people can't hear the difference between hi-res & CD/compressed format sound--or they just don't care--but they do like surround music, they are simply playing their dvd-audio discs using the included Dolby or DTS tracks on their dvd-video players.

I still think they're more interested in getting DD and DTS with their music DVD-V's.

Why purchase something that only sounds better than CD with 5.1 sound, when you can have all that plus the video of their favorite artists performing?

Music DVDs sell extremely well.

Anyone else notice that every week there seems to be a new music DVD-V front and centre on the new-releases shelf? And plenty of them.

Retailers couldn't care less about SACD and DVD-A... music DVD-V's are what sells.

 

[LanceJ]

Music DVDs sell extremely well.

Marc: I read that statement a lot concerning surround music sales. By saying "music dvd" do you mean a concert performance, or a dvd compilation of that artist's music videos that were broadcast on MTV, VH1, etc.?

Also: as far as the number of people liking surround music (audio-only format), the problem I personally see is: WHERE can they check it out in the first place??? Hardly any retailers ever have a HT system set up anymore, or if it is, it is in a space about 5-10 feet in diameter--not conducive to an enjoyable listening experience when a guitar is buzzing literally into the back of one's head! :frowning:

LJ

 

[Marc Colella]

Marc: I read that statement a lot concerning surround music sales. By saying "music dvd" do you mean a concert performance, or a dvd compilation of that artist's music videos that were broadcast on MTV, VH1, etc.?

Both actually, although I believe a concert performance DVD sells better.

I've mentioned this in another thread (and I don't have any sales figures) but I've been hearing the Rolling Stone's Four Licks DVD sold very well... which was only offered at Best Buy and FutureShop.

 

[Brian+H]

If you guys want to see sacd and dvd-a sell, don't look for it at CC or BB or any other retail store.

Those places are too mainstream for either format.

These two formats haven't made it that far yet.
People just don't know about them.

Maybe in a year or two they'll become more mainstream, but not yet.

Stores only care about what sells too. I'm sure the worst selling items in stores like that are dvd-a and sacd.

Music dvd's rock because you can see the band on your big tv and the navigation is like a normal dvd.
Dvd-a navigation can be very confusing and frustrating; there are exceptions of course.

Plus music dvd's are sold in the normal dvd section, dvd-a's aren't. If mainstream people want an album, where do they go? the cd section. They don't go into the dvd section (movies) for audio.
Dvd-a is placed in it's own separate bin as if everyone knows about the format! I for one never see (or notice) dvd-a's in the dvd section, maybe I have to look harder though.

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

This is at least the second MTV generation. Music DVD-V's are the thing. Listening to music in any Hi-Res format is for the fringe elements. Since cassettes the concept has been convenience not fidelity. CD's gave us both. SACD's and DVD-A's don't give us convenience (MP-3's do).

What we need is high-res (MP-XXX) which is just down the yellow brick road.

Sorry

 

[ReggieW]

I've also found that people simply are not intersted enough to invest in a good surround system to appreciate hi-res. I hate to over generalize, but I just dont think a majority of the masses care about improved fidelity. I had someone I work with once tell me "why would you want your music to capture the live experience in your home?" Huh?!? To me this as always been the objective, but to her and many others, they just don't care. I hate to be a pessimist, but I am finding that more and more people care little about much of ANYTHING they become involved in these days in regards to consumer based entertainment. I have decided to wash my hands of these people and just be thankful that I can enjoy the benefits of these formats on my system.

Reg

 

[Sathyan]

If you guys want to see sacd and dvd-a sell, don't look for it at CC or BB or any other retail store.

Not, that I want to start a SACD vs DVD-A fight (for the record, I have a universal player and buy both formats). I tend to buy my music over the internet (mail order). Does anyone have sales data from Elusive Disc and Music Direct (etc.) for high-rez?

 

[LanceJ]

I think we need to distinguish between "hi-res" sound and "surround music":

1) To appreciate high resolution sound--in stereo or surround form--a certain quality level of equipment is required. And the typical $500 HTiB system is not at that level IMO.

2) To appreciate surround music that same $500 HTiB system will do an acceptable job. As long as you have the five satellite speakers in the correct spots you'll do fine. BUT, as far as pinpoint front/sidewall/rear imaging, accurate tonal quality, etc. well.......this is where you'll run into the realities of budget equipment. I have a feeling certain surround mixes that feature delicate & "airy" mixes will suffer the most. Even with surround music there are quality limits you can't go below.

My point? It's one thing to say that hi-res sound will bore most people to tears, but surround sound? Personally I think a large portion of this same group will like it (& it has nothing to do with it being "gimmicky" or a "fad"). I've had many friends & family--none of them audio hobbyists--listen to surround music and I would estimate 70% really liked it. The other 30% couldn't care less. And the younger the listener the more they enjoyed it. And these same people most probably won't balk at paying for the typical HTiB system.

And as I've said before, those people liked surround music ONCE THEY FINALLY HEARD IT (this capitalized part is intended for the dvd-audio labels & retailers!). People in their 40s & older that remember the quadraphonic fiasco back in the 1970s might not want to check out the new digital surround formats (yes folks, they actually work as advertised!). But people born in the 1970s might have a better chance at giving surround music a try if......THEY KNEW IT WAS AVAILABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I rest my case.

LJ

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Also: as far as the number of people liking surround music (audio-only format), the problem I personally see is: WHERE can they check it out in the first place???

All the Circuit City's and Best Buys in my city have Super Audio surround and CC has a DVDA kiosk.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Does anyone have sales data from Elusive Disc and Music Direct (etc.) for high-rez?

Sathyan,

I have a very good source at Acoustic Sounds and they report significant interest in Super Audio. That and LP are their biggest formats. Music Direct also tells me that Super Audio is growing well. They release the Patricia Barber albums in SACD.

I think it would be safe to say that the online retailers cater to an strong audiophile group which results in good SACD sales.

By the way, Soundscan sales data does not track online retailers for the most part. This is a serious limitation that leads to numbers that are biased against audiophile and other niche markets (SACD, LP, DVDA, earlier DAD 24/96 from Chesky, Classic, etc.)

Chesky Records tells me constantly that Super Audio is selling well, but they also have some DVDA titles that sell well. I think there is a bias toward SACD releases there from a business standpoint, but David and Barry like and even prefer the sound quality of DVDA when done right (24/96+ sampling over good gear). My preference for Super Audio is the one area where I differ with these smart, innovative gentlemen.