Warner CEO wants to combine UV and DMA (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

But eventually, for digital to get to the "next level", there will need to be a uniform standard like UV with everyone included.

Woah, I missed this nugget on first read. I don't think this is true for a whole host of reasons:

-I don't think it's currently (or near term) in Apple's best interest to join UV or any follow on UV-like cabal schemes.

-I don't think it's in UV's best interests to bend to whatever Apple would want to get them to join UV or they would have done it already, assuming Apple had any interest in doing so (see point 1)

-I don't necessarily think Apple cares about making 'next level' sales leaps WRT movie sales

-I expect Apple -will- embrace streaming tech sooner than later, we'll see of course, but if they do that cuts out about 90% of the device lockout arguments.

-It's not just Apple of course, there are still quite a few walled gardens that are not UV enabled and that has to be true for a reason. Is it because of sluggishness, contracts, or is there some hidden benefit to them to not be a part of it?

-The Next Level digital is likely to be..... UV....... but it's going to take them a long time to give in to the hard work that has to happen behind the scenes. And key among that is portability between storefronts. There is zero logic in creating an interoperability scheme that does not allow a consumer to take their purchases to whatever front end they want. If it doesn't work 100% of the time between Walmart's front end and someone elses you have just traded one walled garden for another.

 

[bruceames]

I'm not really too concerned with Apple not joining UV and remaining in their own "walled garden". As they lose market share and it gets smaller and smaller, it will be increasingly difficult for them to not have any compatibility (such as no VUDU on their Apple TV) as more and more people use UV and grow their collections. They can have their eventual Mac-ish share and shove for all I care.


The main partner though is Disney. Obviously UV really need them.

 

[Sam Posten]

Yeah I really don't think Apple's market share is going the direction you do tho bruce. Just the opposite in fact. Tho I'm on record as having said, strongly that market share is the least important statistic for Apple....

 

[bruceames]

Mark's ripping strategy might work for about .001% of the market, which statistically isn't that far off from the wants and needs that the UV fans claim above are things that UV must deliver to be successful.

I don't base it on my own wants and needs, but rather the market as a whole (and the parts: which mainly are the consumers, the studios, and the providers like VUDU). Based on that, IMO a download option would be ultimately be beneficial to long term growth for the reasons I mentioned above. Especially with 4K coming.

 

[bruceames]

Yeah I really don't think Apple's market share is going the direction you do tho bruce. Just the opposite in fact. Tho I'm on record as having said, strongly that market share is the least important statistic for Apple....

iTunes market share is declining. Where do you get your information that it is not?


Yes, even for the Great and Mighty Apple, market share is important. Even as YoY revenue increases, a declining market share means many more consumers will be "used to" accessing their digital movies on different platforms than Apple. If Apple doesn't support those platforms, than the consumers that are forced to choose between Apple and "everybody else" will choose everybody else. It will have a snowball effect. A closed ecosystem is a double-edged sword.

 

[Towergrove]

I'm not Mark but I'll take a shot: Because a universal redemption scheme that isn't anywhere near universal doesn't fix any problems (not least of which is the goal of the OP), because iTunes works better than UV and has been around a lot longer and has higher customer satisfaction that UV, and because trying to judge what a market will do based on our own usage is folly. The wants and needs of self described fans often are wildly different than the mass market, sometimes to the point of being polar opposites. Mark's ripping strategy might work for about .001% of the market, which statistically isn't that far off from the wants and needs that the UV fans claim above are things that UV must deliver to be successful.

Yes but those self described fans are the ones that will spend 20 dollars on a film instead of renting for 99 cents or 2 dollars. They also bring in a very large portion of the Home Media pie. In 2015 we are talking multi billions and the EST market is growing. The studios and the bean counters do not and will not ignore that.

 

[Towergrove]

Woah, I missed this nugget on first read. I don't think this is true for a whole host of reasons:

-I don't think it's currently (or near term) in Apple's best interest to join UV or any follow on UV-like cabal schemes.

-I don't think it's in UV's best interests to bend to whatever Apple would want to get them to join UV or they would have done it already, assuming Apple had any interest in doing so (see point 1)

-I don't necessarily think Apple cares about making 'next level' sales leaps WRT movie sales

-I expect Apple -will- embrace streaming tech sooner than later, we'll see of course, but if they do that cuts out about 90% of the device lockout arguments.

-It's not just Apple of course, there are still quite a few walled gardens that are not UV enabled and that has to be true for a reason. Is it because of sluggishness, contracts, or is there some hidden benefit to them to not be a part of it?

-The Next Level digital is likely to be..... UV....... but it's going to take them a long time to give in to the hard work that has to happen behind the scenes. And key among that is portability between storefronts. There is zero logic in creating an interoperability scheme that does not allow a consumer to take their purchases to whatever front end they want. If it doesn't work 100% of the time between Walmart's front end and someone elses you have just traded one walled garden for another.

All great points Sam. Here are a few of my questions...


Question #1- Apple may not...but the provider of the media "Hollywood" does. As the saying goes "If momma aint happy aint no body happy". Hollywood usually pulls and pushes the buttons but do they still? That is the question???

Question #2- I do hope apple embraces browser based itunes in some form that way there wouldnt be any lock in or percieved lock in to one or the others walled gardens. Will apple do this browser based?

 

[Ejanss]

All great points Sam. Here are a few of my questions...


Question #1- Apple may not...but the provider of the media "Hollywood" does. As the saying goes "If momma aint happy aint no body happy". Hollywood usually pulls and pushes the buttons but do they still? That is the question???

They want to, but they've got that little functional problem of how to make buttons:

Hollywood hasn't been happy since iTunes was invented--I remember the first days when iTunes was almost literally all Disney/Pixar, because nobody else would play with lil' Steve. Half the studios thought it would never work, and when it did, studios got too greedy, and didn't want someone else calling the shots, or telling them that they could only charge one price for a movie whether it was a hit or not.

So, Sony tried coming up with its own competing format to Apple's movies and music, and Amazon promised Warner that if they came to Unbox, they could be free to scalp whatever price for their movies they could imagine.

We know what happened to Unbox, anybody ever remember what happened to the Sony one?


Studios can threaten, but the market still gravitates toward the line of least resistance, aka the one that works.

For streaming, that's UV, and for downloadable files and Apple compatibility, that's iTunes, and when studios stamp their feet, oo, that's real scary.

 

[bucksguy]

Hi folks I'm back.


Some good stuff going on in here, but I think you're all missing some important things about the sell-through business (EST or Physical), and that is the leading companies in the EST business don't have any rational business motivation to participate in UV.


For Apple, content sells hardware; it does not matter if they make money from the content, as long as people buy the iThings to play it. If the content market shifts, they will change, thus the Beats purchase (which is also, to a large degree, a hardware purchase). But the content is one of a long list of lock-in tactics.


For Amazon, hardware sells content. They have their own line of hardware, but they are very accommodating to people who want to access Amazon purchased content without Amazon hardware. The Amazon hardware just makes it a little easier and locks you in as a Prime customer (I love my Amazon prime account, it's got far more content than you'd imagine, and my kindle is one of my top 5 favorite devices).


Remember also that Google and Microsoft are huge in the space as well, and while Google's vision seems to be "global domination of all living beings and their thoughts" and they have a mishmash of hardware and content to that ends, Microsoft's play in the content space is....hardware, just like Amazon. All walled gardens.


So where is the "wall-less" retailer in all of this? Well, there's Netflix, which isn't even retail....and then if you reduce, by two orders of magnitude, the customer base, you get to Hulu+, also not really retail, and then reduce that number a little more and you get to Vudu, which is retail, but still walled to a great degree, and then you're into the noise-floor of Cinema Now and other systems than somehow stay in business. Target Ticket lasted what, 12 months? 16 Months?


From the side of the studios and the ecosystems, interoperability is only a means to drive sales of studio content. It largely ignores the business realities of the retailers, who have very little incentive to cooperate.


If you're so concerned about cross-platform playback and not having your license revoked or whatever just buy on disc, rip to MP4 (it's really not hard) and run a Plex server and you're all set. Don't share the files you made, and just use the media on your own devices and all will be OK.


For the rest of the world, streaming is perfectly fine, content sometimes goes away but there's always something to watch on Netflix.

 

[Sam Posten]

Sounds like we are on very similar thinking here Bucks, thanks for the follow up! I disagree about the ease of use for ripping for the average viewer but most of them are blissfully unaware of licensing issues anyway....

 

[satam55]

Hi folks I'm back.


Some good stuff going on in here, but I think you're all missing some important things about the sell-through business (EST or Physical), and that is the leading companies in the EST business don't have any rational business motivation to participate in UV.


For Apple, content sells hardware; it does not matter if they make money from the content, as long as people buy the iThings to play it. If the content market shifts, they will change, thus the Beats purchase (which is also, to a large degree, a hardware purchase). But the content is one of a long list of lock-in tactics.


For Amazon, hardware sells content. They have their own line of hardware, but they are very accommodating to people who want to access Amazon purchased content without Amazon hardware. The Amazon hardware just makes it a little easier and locks you in as a Prime customer (I love my Amazon prime account, it's got far more content than you'd imagine, and my kindle is one of my top 5 favorite devices).


Remember also that Google and Microsoft are huge in the space as well, and while Google's vision seems to be "global domination of all living beings and their thoughts" and they have a mishmash of hardware and content to that ends, Microsoft's play in the content space is....hardware, just like Amazon. All walled gardens.


So where is the "wall-less" retailer in all of this? Well, there's Netflix, which isn't even retail....and then if you reduce, by two orders of magnitude, the customer base, you get to Hulu+, also not really retail, and then reduce that number a little more and you get to Vudu, which is retail, but still walled to a great degree, and then you're into the noise-floor of Cinema Now and other systems than somehow stay in business. Target Ticket lasted what, 12 months? 16 Months?


From the side of the studios and the ecosystems, interoperability is only a means to drive sales of studio content. It largely ignores the business realities of the retailers, who have very little incentive to cooperate.


If you're so concerned about cross-platform playback and not having your license revoked or whatever just buy on disc, rip to MP4 (it's really not hard) and run a Plex server and you're all set. Don't share the files you made, and just use the media on your own devices and all will be OK.


For the rest of the world, streaming is perfectly fine, content sometimes goes away but there's always something to watch on Netflix.

What are your thoughts on Disney Movies Anywhere than?

 

[Joshua Clinard]

A few days ago the logo's for the missing companies were added back to the business page. Microsoft, LodgeNet, LoveFilm (which was folded into Amazon Prime) Phillips, Toshiba, Seagate, and the others are all back, plus a few new ones.

 

[satam55]

A few days ago the logo's for the missing companies were added back to the business page. Microsoft, LodgeNet, LoveFilm (which was folded into Amazon Prime) Phillips, Toshiba, Seagate, and the others are all back, plus a few new ones.

A few days ago the logo's for the missing companies were added back to the business page. Microsoft, LodgeNet, LoveFilm (which was folded into Amazon Prime) Phillips, Toshiba, Seagate, and the others are all back, plus a few new ones.

link?

 

[Towergrove]

From the side of the studios and the ecosystems, interoperability is only a means to drive sales of studio content. It largely ignores the business realities of the retailers, who have very little incentive to cooperate.

If you're so concerned about cross-platform playback and not having your license revoked or whatever just buy on disc, rip to MP4 (it's really not hard) and run a Plex server and you're all set. Don't share the files you made, and just use the media on your own devices and all will be OK.


For the rest of the world, streaming is perfectly fine, content sometimes goes away but there's always something to watch on Netflix.

If it was that easy that the rest of the world was perfectly fine with just Netty streaming, but in reality there is also something that isn't small chump change for the studios and that is electronic sell thru which I believe is growing in 2015 and around $2 billion. There isnt one way or the highway approach to this industry and there wont be. All three variable will be important for the industry going forward (Streaming rental, EST and Physical Sales). It is very important that they get the EST part of the business correct which I believe they havent done so far. Ive been to several industry conferences in the past several months and when the topic comes up about EST I dont feel satisfied with the answers from the studio representatives. Heck do they even know??? While I enjoy the usefulness across multiple devices with Ultraviolet I still believe they need to get a universal player out and the CFF which we are still waiting for as of April 2015.

As you said Plex is a great option for those who have a large media collection that they enjoy.

 

[Towergrove]

link?

Being from the "Show me State" I happy to find these two for you:


http://uvcentral.com/yellowpages



https://www.myuv.com/en/gb/uv-for-business


Not sure if there are others though.