Warner Bros. says no to DTS! (1 Viewer)

[Cees Alons]

In a DTS discussion thread, probably yes.

Absolute and utter nonsense Malcolm. This is a thread about Warner saying "no" to DTS. So people are perfectly allowed to tell us why they think Warner is right there or at least have a point.

In fact, the originator of the thread asked us specifically "if someone out there could shed some light as to what the rationale is behind this decision...".

Your claim for this thread to be "a DTS thread" (and then trying to forbid others to post) is preposterous. One could as well claim that this is a "no to DTS" thread (with the reverse effect).
Thread farting is the definition for spoiling the pleasure of others in a thread created to express said pleasure. It is never meant to ban varied and lively debate. This thread therefore doesn't even qualify, nor does the presence of a discussion showing various sides.

The very fact that you automatically and incorrectly seem to perceive a thread like this as "a DTS" thread is significant here.

Furthermore, I didn't see an apology for your absolutely uncalled for suggestion of bribe. You owe your fellow members that.

You're completely out of line here.

Cees

 

[RobertR]

Very well put, Cees. I also agree with Michael St. Clair about the proper, valid way to do these kind of comparisons.

 

[Philip Hamm]

The only test that has meaning to me is to do separate double-blind tests. One large group compares DTS to the original master in an ABX test. The other large group compares DD to the original master in an ABX test. Nobody compares DD to DTS. Whichever one fools the most people is the most transparent.

I think Dolby is open to such tests.

I believe that it is a safe statement for me to tell you that you will never be satisfied. So why bother, just forget it and enjoy your movies.

Or you could at least try my suggestion. There are many DVD-Audio Discs out there with the original PCM, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DTS 5.1 tracks, many of which were produced independantly. They offer a valid, perhaps not perfect, comparison of codecs. It's the best we can do for now, and it's very educational. Why not try it?

I will again add my disclaimor: I think that multichannel music and critical listening is more stressful to a codec than movies.

 

[Philip Hamm]

You're completely out of line here.

Not as much as Malcolm R is, Cees.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Or you could at least try my suggestion. There are many DVD-Audio Discs out there with the original PCM, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DTS 5.1 tracks, many of which were produced independantly. They offer a valid, perhaps not perfect, comparison of codecs. It's the best we can do for now, and it's very educational. Why not try it?

It's not that educational. Research has proven time and time again that expectation colors perception, even among those people who are convinced they are objective.

Secondly, music titles typically use full-bitrate DTS, which is essentially non-existent in movies these days. Apples and oranges; the codec was never designed for that half-neutered bitrate. This cannot be ignored.

ps I have piles of DTS laserdiscs and love them. My only agenda is objectivity and reason. Why are you directing your energy towards me and not those who have an obvious subjective, anti-DD axe to grind? Maybe you have a bias of your own.

 

[Malcolm R]

Sorry.

 

[Cees Alons]

Meagre.

Cees

 

[RobertR]

And the award for the most insincere sounding apology goes to...

 

[Quint van der Vaart]

I find it to be very narrowminded of Warner Bros to say that Dolby at 384 is good enough because I think good is never enough and Warner should at least try to release it's soundtracks at 448.
Other studio's put added value to their dvd's and are still able to put dolby and dts sound on the disc so why can't Warner ?!

DTS sound is not automaticly better than Dolby.
I think it's a personal taste and there are many good Dolby tracks but there are also many good DTS tracks as well so why not enjoy both.

I do realy hope that Warner should at least try to put DTS sound on some of their new releases and see how well that sells instead of releasing titles that everyone already owns and only the "Heavy" collector's buy.
I think The Matrix Reloaded should provide a very nice chance for Warner to try this out and if space is an issue make a 2-disc set like they do with their re-releases like Robin Hood.
Personally I think the public would welcome to choice from Warner.

 

[David Judah]

Why are you directing your energy towards me and not those who have an obvious subjective, anti-DD axe to grind?

Oh please. Posting a mere preference for DTS doesn't mean someone is anti-DD. That's ridiculous.

DJ

 

[Michael Reuben]

Oh please. Posting a mere preference for DTS doesn't mean someone is anti-DD. That's ridiculous.

The behavior that sent this thread spiraling off track went far beyond expressing a preference. And remarks like this one aren't helping to get it back. I'd rather not have to close the thread, so everyone please take a moment.

M.

 

[Philip Hamm]

It's not that educational. Research has proven time and time again that expectation colors perception, even among those people who are convinced they are objective.

It's easy to make it at least a single blind test. Get a bunch of friends together and have someone switch between the formats on a few DVD-A discs. Have someone control which format gets played and write down what everyone thinks. Not tough, and while not as good as a full fledged double blind it's a big step in the right direction.

 

[RobertR]

it's a big step in the right direction.

But not a sufficient step. "Friends" would have plenty of opportunity to ruin the "blindness" of the test.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

But not a sufficient step. "Friends" would have plenty of opportunity to ruin the "blindness" of the test.

Plus, you don't know what kind of mastering/noiseshaping/dithering was used to create the LPCM layer...it may not sound like the original master. I wouldn't trust consumer DACs to be evenly balanced in your players. Many issues abound.

Plus it's all moot in terms of movies anyway...full bitrate versus half-bitrate.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

And the award for the most insincere sounding apology goes to...

I think "I" take this one, RobertR! :b

 

[David Judah]

I have noticed the same thing, Philip. It can be interesting for those willing to spend a little time with some friends who are into this hobby and it's the only time the DD & DTS tracks get used on a DVD-A at my house.

I believe that it is a safe statement for me to tell you that you will never be satisfied

Indeed.

DJ

 

[Ed St. Clair]

I wasn't happy that MGM decided to omit a DTS
track on this DVD. I compared both the Image DTS
release against the MGM release in a few small
spots and found the DTS version to be a slightly
more enveloping and realistic sound environment.
It's a real shame that MGM couldn't go the distance
in giving us the absolute best picture and sound
they could -- especially when they spread the
film presentation across 2 sides of a DVD disc.

I have a funny feeling Mr. Epstein, did not do a "double blind" test, to arrive at this conclusion, in his wonderful as always, review of DwW.
Should, Ronald Epstein's opinion, be deleted or what?

 

[greg_t]

Sure, if people boycott their products, they may change the way they do things. But if to get a company to listen to it's consumers you have to boycott it, there's a big problem with that company and they've lost sight of the fundemental goal, which is to strive to create a product that the consumer will purchase, and to keep in touch with the consumer requests. Also, I doubt you would be able to get enough people to boycott to even make a difference.

Warner puts out good product, but I think they should be more responsive to the consumer. When asked about DTS in that chat, they basically said "Sorry, won't do it". That's not the way to respond to your consumer.

 

[RobertR]

Until then, I am going to have to use my "own" ear's & system.

The funny part is that if offered the opportunity to participate in a test such as Michael mentioned, there is no doubt in my mind that many, MANY DTSphiles would angrily refuse.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

That's not the way to respond to your consumer.

When said "consumer" has "NO" effect on the marketplace?
They listen to people that buy DVD's. As they should.
How many of us DTS'ers, do you think there are?
Not enough to continue to release DTS only (yes, I am well aware, there "has" to be a DD track. I speaking of 5.1, of coarse) DVD's.
Otherwise, we'd still see 'them' in the marketplace.
However, 'their' gone.
And DTS has said nothing about releasing any more.
So, if DTS DVD's don't sell enough to keep them afloat, WB should have to included DTS, because...?
We, little bitty we, want them too?
Will not happen!

You can not continue to purchase WB DVD's, and expect them to stop and add something for you, that they are 'sure' will not improve sales.
Done deal!