Warner Archive Blu-rays vs. iTunes HD Digitals (1 Viewer)

[Mark-P]

And we get these newest versions without the need to double, triple, or quadruple dip.

I would be a very happy person if that were true, but there are many, many iTunes releases that do not get replaced with newer transfers when they become become available elsewhere, Warner Brothers titles to be specific.

 

[cda1143]

I would be a very happy person if that were true, but there are many, many iTunes releases that do not get replaced with newer transfers when they become become available elsewhere, Warner Brothers titles to be specific.

It is true, although it doesn't happen with every release. You're correct that many Warner Archive new Blu-ray releases don't get updated immediately. Many Criterions don't either. They often leave their remastering efforts "disc only" for a while, to recoup their costs. But after enough months have past, you'll find many of these wind up getting (silently) updated on iTunes.

We Warner Archive and Criterion folks often feel it's worth it to spring for the latest and greatest disc versions of these films. But collectors of these films are not the "many, many"; we're the "few, few". For the overwhelming majority of movies sold, automatic updates to better versions is a substantial benefit of iTunes.

 

[Robert Crawford]

It is true, although it doesn't happen with every release. You're correct that many Warner Archive new Blu-ray releases don't get updated immediately. Many Criterions don't either. They often leave their remastering efforts "disc only" for a while, to recoup their costs. But after enough months have past, you'll find many of these wind up getting (silently) updated on iTunes.

We Warner Archive and Criterion folks often feel it's worth it to spring for the latest and greatest disc versions of these films. But collectors of these films are not the "many, many"; we're the "few, few". For the overwhelming majority of movies sold, automatic updates to better versions is a substantial benefit of iTunes.

They don't get updated at all on iTunes, Vudu or any other streaming service. If they're Warner Archive titles, the digitals on those services are from an older master. The only Warner digitals that are derived from new masters are those movies that don't have the "Warner Archive Collection" brand on them like "The Wizard of Oz" or "Casablanca".

 

[cda1143]

They don't get updated at all on iTunes, Vudu or any other streaming service. If they're Warner Archive titles, the digitals on those services are from an older master. The only Warner digitals that are derived from new masters are those movies that don't have the "Warner Archive Collection" brand on them like "The Wizard of Oz" or "Casablanca".

For Warner Archive fans, this is an important question, but I’m not sure this is always the case. There has been a discussion of this question in the past. With more than one title, I have heard George Feltenstein announce, on his Warner Archive podcast, that the remaster would be the HD version available on iTunes. I can’t speak for Vudu, and I’ve never heard George mention Vudu. Perhaps George was mistaken, but I doubt it. So it seems that at least some remasters get updated.

Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone has found a way to determine which iTunes titles are which masters. Neither Warner Archive nor Apple seem interested in disseminating this information. The only way to be certain is direct comparison. Different masters should be evident.

I almost always buy the discs. I‘m happy about supporting Warner Archive efforts. As one doesn’t get a digital code with Warner Archive, the only way to compare is to purchase or rent the iTunes version In addition to the disc.

 

[Robert Crawford]

For Warner Archive fans, this is an important question, but I’m not sure this is always the case. There has been a discussion of this question in the past. With more than one title, I have heard George Feltenstein announce, on his Warner Archive podcast, that the remaster would be the HD version available on iTunes. I can’t speak for Vudu, and I’ve never heard George mention Vudu. Perhaps George was mistaken, but I doubt it. So it seems that at least some remasters get updated.

Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone has found a way to determine which iTunes titles are which masters. Neither Warner Archive nor Apple seem interested in disseminating this information. The only way to be certain is direct comparison. Different masters should be evident.

I almost always buy the discs. I‘m happy about supporting Warner Archive efforts. As one doesn’t get a digital code with Warner Archive, the only way to compare is to purchase or rent the iTunes version In addition to the disc.

Hey, believe what you want, but I know differently as I bought several Warner titles on iTunes that have since been released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive.

 

[Worth]

Hey, believe what you want, but I know differently as I bought several Warner titles on iTunes that have since been released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive.

I think some titles that were only available in SD on iTunes - like The Hunger and Innocent Blood - did get the most recent masters when they were upgraded to HD. But it seems like titles that are already available in HD, like The Sea Hawk, don't get upgraded.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think some titles that were only available in SD on iTunes - like The Hunger and Innocent Blood - did get the most recent masters when they were upgraded to HD. But it seems like titles that are already available in HD, like The Sea Hawk, don't get upgraded.

This will be my last post on this matter as I've sidetracked this thread enough. Are you sure about that as iTunes doesn't give free SD to HD updates like they do with HD to 4K upgrades? Furthermore, just because a HD digital was added to iTunes, it doesn't necessarily mean it's derived from the newest master. I don't have those particular titles so I can't compare like I've done with the titles listed below. The following titles on iTunes still are derived from old HD transfers compared to the newest HD master used for WA Blu-ray releases:

Sweet Bird of Youth
Tin Cup
The Bad and the Beautiful
Operation Crossbow
The Set-Up
The Thin Man
Merrill's Marauders
The Sea Hawk
Jezebel
Gun Crazy

 

[cda1143]

Hey, believe what you want, but I know differently as I bought several Warner titles on iTunes that have since been released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive.

I believe you regarding any titles you have owned or specified. I take It as valuable confirmation of titles which have not been updated. Thank you. I also believe George.

 

[Mark-P]

This will be my last post on this matter as I've sidetracked this thread enough. Are you sure about that as iTunes doesn't give free SD to HD updates like they do with HD to 4K upgrades? Furthermore, just because a HD digital was added to iTunes, it doesn't necessarily mean it's derived from the newest master. I don't have those particular titles so I can't compare like I've done with the titles listed below. The following titles on iTunes still are derived from old HD transfers compared to the newest HD master used for WA Blu-ray releases:

Sweet Bird of Youth
Tin Cup
The Bad and the Beautiful
Operation Crossbow
The Set-Up
The Thin Man
Merrill's Marauders
The Sea Hawk
Jezebel
Gun Crazy

And I can vouch for two more titles I own that are definitely older masters on iTunes:
Summer Stock
The Witches

Also I don't think he was saying you get free SD-to-HD upgrades, but since no other HD master was available for those titles (The Hunger and Innocent Blood), naturally the HD version added to iTunes had to be the latest master.

Edit: Cheapcharts shows The Hunger being available digitally in HD all the way back to 2014, prior to the Blu-ray, so I kind of doubt that one is the most recent master either.

 

[Cranston37+]

I think some titles that were only available in SD on iTunes - like The Hunger and Innocent Blood - did get the most recent masters when they were upgraded to HD.

Are you sure about that as iTunes doesn't give free SD to HD updates like they do with HD to 4K upgrades?

Robert - I don't think he's saying HIS copies got upgraded from SD to HD. He's saying ITUNES' copies got upgraded.

 

[cda1143]

For my own curiosity, I did a comparison last night of two iTunes HD versus Blu-ray Warner Archive titles: American in Paris, and Jezebel. I’m confident Jezebel is not the same master. I am also confident that American in Paris is the same master. I am not an professional, and I’m not claiming this as fact. I’m just reporting my observations. My viewing was on a 103 inch wide scope screen.

I chose the films at random based on special iTunes rental pricing. I don’t own any iTunes versions of Warner archive releases, so I had to rent. I chose one color and one black and white.

Needless to say, a sample size of two is statistically useless for extrapolating information about any other warner archive titles.

And... I might be wrong.

YMMV

 

[Jeff Adkins]

For my own curiosity, I did a comparison last night of two iTunes HD versus Blu-ray Warner Archive titles: American in Paris, and Jezebel. I’m confident Jezebel is not the same master. I am also confident that American in Paris is the same master. I am not an professional, and I’m not claiming this as fact. I’m just reporting my observations. My viewing was on a 103 inch wide scope screen.

I chose the films at random based on special iTunes rental pricing. I don’t own any iTunes versions of Warner archive releases, so I had to rent. I chose one color and one black and white.

Needless to say, a sample size of two is statistically useless for extrapolating information about any other warner archive titles.

And... I might be wrong.

YMMV

That would be consistent with the Warner Archive musicals that were put on sale on iTunes recently. This is from the last Warner Archive email I received on 4/28:

Escape into the world of the movie musical with 47 classics from Warner Archive available on iTunes for $4.99 each! Not only are all of these toe tapping, heart warming films ready to download at the touch of a button, but all of them available in 1080p HD! Offer valid from 4/28 until 5/4 9PM PDT. ​

Since they are being sold under the Warner Archive banner, I'd assume these titles are all the same master. However, it doesn't seem like many (if any) of the other titles are the same. The iTunes copy I purchased of The Witches definitely isn't.

 

[Cranston37+]

For my own curiosity, I did a comparison last night of two iTunes HD versus Blu-ray Warner Archive titles: "American in Paris," and Jezebel.

Minor problem with your test - "An American in Paris" is not a Warner Archive title.

 

[Robert Crawford]

For my own curiosity, I did a comparison last night of two iTunes HD versus Blu-ray Warner Archive titles: American in Paris, and Jezebel. I’m confident Jezebel is not the same master. I am also confident that American in Paris is the same master. I am not an professional, and I’m not claiming this as fact. I’m just reporting my observations. My viewing was on a 103 inch wide scope screen.

I chose the films at random based on special iTunes rental pricing. I don’t own any iTunes versions of Warner archive releases, so I had to rent. I chose one color and one black and white.

Needless to say, a sample size of two is statistically useless for extrapolating information about any other warner archive titles.

And... I might be wrong.

YMMV

An American in Paris Blu-ray wasn't originally released by Warner Archive Collection in 2009. It was released by Warner Home Video. Again, movies released on Blu-ray that came from Warner Home Video and not Warner Archive Collection will have the HD digitals on iTunes derived from the latest master. The same applies to movies like Casablanca, Citizen Kane and TWOO. All of those movie titles were released Warner Home Video or Warner Bros. Home Entertainment. Those iTunes digitals are derived from the latest masters used for their disc release. Movies originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection do not have their HD digitals on iTunes derived from the same masters used for those Blu-ray releases.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Minor problem with your test - "An American in Paris" is not a Warner Archive title.

That's correct!

 

[Robert Crawford]

That would be consistent with the Warner Archive musicals that were put on sale on iTunes recently. This is from the last Warner Archive email I received on 4/28:

Escape into the world of the movie musical with 47 classics from Warner Archive available on iTunes for $4.99 each! Not only are all of these toe tapping, heart warming films ready to download at the touch of a button, but all of them available in 1080p HD! Offer valid from 4/28 until 5/4 9PM PDT. ​

Since they are being sold under the Warner Archive banner, I'd assume these titles are all the same master. However, it doesn't seem like many (if any) of the other titles are the same. The iTunes copy I purchased of The Witches definitely isn't.

Jeff,

Warner Musicals that were originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection will not have their iTunes HD digitals derived from the same master used for that Blu-ray release. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. As @Mark-P would tell you, I didn't believe it either and thought iTunes HD digitals were derived from the same masters as the WA Blu-ray releases. He and I would go round and round until I did a deep dive in comparing WA Blu-rays to their iTunes HD digitals. I spent hours over a 3-4 day period doing that comparison testing. Mark was right and I was wrong. If you don't believe me then do your own comparisons, but just remember it has to be a movie title that was originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection. It can't have a prior Blu-ray release from Warner Home Video or Warner Bros. Home Entertainment.

 

[Osato]

All - I appreciate this thread and discussion. I had been wondering about the comparisons of the archive titles and iTunes.

I should pick up the 2 Hitchcock titles that are $4.99 right now.

 

[cda1143]

Robert: Thanks so much for moving this to a new thread and all your additional info.

 

[cda1143]

Minor problem with your test - "An American in Paris" is not a Warner Archive title.

Warner Musicals that were originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection will not have their iTunes HD digitals derived from the same master used for that Blu-ray release. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. ... but just remember it has to be a movie title that was originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection. It can't have a prior Blu-ray release from Warner Home Video or Warner Bros. Home Entertainment.

Thank you. You guys have hit on the reason for my confusion: Which titles are Warner Archive? "American in Paris" is on iTunes in the Warner Archive collection, so I assumed it was a Warner Archive title. I popped the disc in for comparison without noticing that the disc does not have the Warner Archive label on it.

With my random sample of two discs I seem to have completely stumbled onto a valid sample set.

Thanks Robert for the clearing up this muddy issue.

 

[Osato]

Jeff,

Warner Musicals that were originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection will not have their iTunes HD digitals derived from the same master used for that Blu-ray release. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. As @Mark-P would tell you, I didn't believe it either and thought iTunes HD digitals were derived from the same masters as the WA Blu-ray releases. He and I would go round and round until I did a deep dive in comparing WA Blu-rays to their iTunes HD digitals. I spent hours over a 3-4 day period doing that comparison testing. Mark was right and I was wrong. If you don't believe me then do your own comparisons, but just remember it has to be a movie title that was originally released on Blu-ray by Warner Archive Collection. It can't have a prior Blu-ray release from Warner Home Video or Warner Bros. Home Entertainment.

so The Wrong Man on iTunes uses a different hd transfer than Warner archive Blu ray??