Warmer sounding: Outlaw 1050 or Denon 4802. (1 Viewer)

[John Vo]

I am curious as to what people mean by warmer sounding or more 'laid back'. I currently use an Outlaw 1050 to power some Diva 6.1s. This combo always sounded great to me, crisp and clear.

I recently had the oppportunity to test a Denon 4802 to hear what more power would sound like through my speakers. The Denon sounded more muffled to me. I know that the Denon is a good receiver, I'm just wondering if the more muffled sound I was hearing equates to 'warmer' or 'laid back' while the crisp, sharp sound of my Outlaw equates to 'forward'.

I like how my Outlaw sounds more than the Denon. I am looking into upgrading to separates. I don't know if the dealers around me would allow me to test all the pre/pro and amplifiers I have read about on this forum so I would like some suggestions on which ones to concentrate on.

Thanks in advance,


-Vo

 

[Joe Szott]

John-

I'm just wondering if the more muffled sound I was hearing equates to 'warmer' or 'laid back' while the crisp, sharp sound of my Outlaw equates to 'forward'.

Yes, that is what the difference is. Better to say that high frequencies are either tapered off or emphasized, some people like it one way some folks the other. Typically, Outlaw equipment is pretty neutral, edging towards the bright side (just barely). I had an HK 520, it was warm compared to the outlaw I use now, which I can only call "laid back". It just lets the sound through and doesn't try to add anything extra, my ear has really grown to the sound. Warm receivers can sometimes sound bass heavy, at least that's how it sounded to me.

For separates, I think one choice is pretty obvious: Outlaw. I moved to a 750/950 combo and have loved every minute of it. For a B-stock 950 and a 7100 amp you can get 7 channel seaparates for $1600. Not a bad deal and you can test the separates for 30 days guaranteed. Don't like it? Send it back...

 

[John Vo]

Joe,

Thanks! I was considering the 7100/950 combo for a while but there are some features I really want that the 950 does not provide. Just small things, but enough for me to consider other options. If I don't find anything else that sounds good to me, I know I have the Outlaw to fall back on because I love the sound. I couldn't stand the way the Denon muffled everything up.

I am really thinking about just starting off with an amp since the 1050 has preouts. Any suggestions on amps that would pair well with the Divas/1050 combo?

-Vo

 

[jad]

FWIW, I had an Outlaw 1050 for 2 1/2 years until I sold it about 6 months ago looking for a receiver with more current features like Pro-Logic 2. I auditoned many receivers under 1K including Yamaha, integra, HK, Denon, and NAD. Although they all were pretty satisfying for Home theater none of them were as musical as the Outlaw for 2 channel music. So despite it being a little outdated I will most likely buy another one.

 

[John Vo]

Thanks Jad,

That is good to know. I use my system mostly for Home Theater but have recently started listening to more music. I truly do love the way the Outlaw sounds. I am thinking about getting into SACD/DVD-Audio so it is good to hear that the Outlaw is good for music as well!

-John

 

[Russell _T]

As a current owner of an Outlaw 950/770 rig, and two of the smaller Denon's, I don't understand your perception that the Denon is muffled. I have always found Denon to have exceptional clarity and channel separation. As well thought of as the 1050 is, the 4802 is a big step up in terms of dynamics, power, transient response, processing power, detail, and a balanced presentation across the frequency range.

 

[John Vo]

When I was testing out the Denon, it did not sound as bright and clear as the Outlaw. I am not saying that it sounded bad, it just didn't play the higher frequencies with as much clarity as the Outlaw.

Instruments like cymbals and horns didn't sound as sharp, nor did dialog. I'm not saying that it wasn't clear; it just sounded more muffled and softer (not in volume).

Was it just this particular Denon? I don't know; I didn't have any other Denons around to test. What I really need to do is audition more receivers and see what they all sound like so I have a better idea of how different equipment sounds.

As for channel separation, the Denon was AWESOME. I heard some things in the THX intro of The Phantom Menace that I never heard with my Outlaw. Of course, that could be because there was a lot more power being supplied to my surrounds, but never the less, it was ear-opening. I still prefer the brightness of the Outlaw though.

 

[Russell _T]

John,
I don't think Denon can be beat in the channel separation department. What speakers were you doing the demo on? That is most likely the culprit. That and the room. Your Divas are better speakers than anything you will find in a B&M for anywhere near the price. If you are really interested in the Denon, talk the dealer into a loaner for the weekend, and in your own setup, I think you will be impressed. The Divas and Denon are made for each other.

 

[jad]

I auditioned the Denon 2803 and the sound was as John described. In addition to being not as clear in the highs the mid bass was rather weak. The overall sound was just too laid back but with the right music it can be very appealing.

 

[John Vo]

To add to all this, I have hardwood floors so I don't get a lot of sound dampening. If anything, things tend to be too bright but I have spent a lot of time adjusting speaker positions to get it just the way I like it. The addition of a large area rug also helped. If i didn't like how warm the Denon sounded with hardwood floors, how much more would I dislike it if I ever moved into a place that had carpet?

I have never heard a bad thing said about the Denons nor am I saying anything bad. I just don't care for how they sound in my system. Now, my mission is to find something that will give me the channel separation of the Denon while maintaining the open and bright sound of the Outlaw.

Do amps change the sound of a system or is it the processor that does it?

 

[Russell _T]

I believe you can get an Outlaw 950 with their new 100 watt amp for around the same price as the 4802 can't you? I find that my 950 has all the features I need, and a few I don't. The Outlaw stuff is genuine high end gear at bargain prices.

 

[Paul Anthony]

I think the sound from your receiver has a lot to do with the speakers you own. I own a Denon AVR-4802R coupled with Infinity speakers, and get extreme clairity from my unit, that's because Infinity speakers are known to have well built tweeters, hence the sound will be a bit sharper (or brighter), no muffled sound there! The bass is pretty heavy coming from my Cerwin Vega subwoofer, absolutely no weak bass of any kind that I hear of either.

OTOH, Outlaw seperates are the best units that money can buy, only your ears and speakers can tell you.