Walking Dead Season 3 (1 Viewer)

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
Hey, the show is the one that's decided to follow these people and have an opposing villain in The Governor, which by default makes "our" group the "good guys" to "root for".

No, it doesn't. It makes them the protagonists, but not necessarily the good guys, and we certainly don't have to root for them (in fact, we can actively root against them--see "The Americans" for a current example of this). There is a recent trend for television shows to focus on the actions of "evil" characters, for lack of a better term. The (literary/dramatic) concept of course began long before The Sopranos, but arguably the trend in quality television began there.
When Tony Soprano is suffering from depression, you are supposed to root for him, but really, can the same thing be said when he's avoiding the FBI's (lawful) wiretapping attempts? "Gee, I sure hope this mobster-killer is able to evade capture from law enforcement!"
If we're supposed to root for the group (or Tony Soprano, or whomever), it's because one of the themes of the show is moral relativism, and there's a commentary on how a viewer can sympathize with an otherwise unsympathetic person.

Originally Posted by mattCR
I just don't know, you'd think Rick being a policeman in that town would know the people who kept their own arms in volume and gun stores.

Wasn't that briefly dealt with in the episode? I was making coffee in the other room, but I thought I heard something about Rick commenting on how he knows who has guns, and also assumed everything would have been raided (I normally give my undivided attention to TV, but honestly I've been so unimpressed with this show until this episode that I took a chance--of course it bites me in the butt).
One of the more annoying aspects of the previous writing (blame on the earlier writers), is how Rick, the policeman, has no clue how to get to the major jail in the region

 

[Walter Kittel]

If we're supposed to root for the group (or Tony Soprano, or whomever), it's because one of the themes of the show is moral relativism, and there's a commentary on how a viewer can sympathize with an otherwise unsympathetic person.

Yes. Moral relativism is definitely at play in the Godfather films, to name a notable example. In The Godfather, Brando's character eschews the drug business, and we never see him kill anyone (well in the first film anyway) and these factors help make him a sympathetic character.

Wasn't that briefly dealt with in the episode?

Yes, Rick told Michonne that he signed the gun permits for citizens in the town, so even though it might not be widespread knowledge, he knew where the guns were probably located.

One of the more annoying aspects of the previous writing (blame on the earlier writers), is how Rick, the policeman, has no clue how to get to the major jail in the region

Yep. Seeing as how they were within driving distance of the prison, one would think that the sheriff would be aware of such a facility. - Walter.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I'm not ignorant to the concept of moral relativism or shows/films like The Sopranos or The Godfather. I just don't think The Walking Dead is pulling it off effectively. At all. Don Corleone's disassociation with drugs was brought up. Where's the equivalent for Rick & co. as compared to The Governor? Right now they are the same exact person practically, and that creates little incentive for me to have interest in either of them. When you pit two people up as opposing forces its nice to have some actual opposition. This show is just terribly bogged down right now where its supposed main character is concerned, IMO.

 

[Walter Kittel]

To the best of my knowledge, Rick has not... Tortured prisoners to acquire knowledge. Ordered any of his group to hunt down and kill someone. Pitted members of his group against each other or Walkers. He respected Herschel's "rules" while on his farm and never worked against him. He debated the ethics of the zombie apocalypse with Shane and tried to take the high ground. He tried to help Morgan in last night's episode. I'll grant you that he became a dictator at the end of season 2 and he has been taking the train to crazytown, but last night's episode serves as a cautionary tale for Rick should he continue to isolate himself, and I believe we will see him engage more with his group. Certainly the hitch-hiker component of last night's episode points to a less altruistic Rick, but who is to say what the Governor would have done in that situation. Something worse, I'm sure. Edit: Not really trying to change your mind Brandon. Just in my view, there is a lot of distance between Rick and The Governor from a moral stance. - Walter.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Points taken. I guess it's the underlying dictator elements in Rick that have gone a bit far for my tastes, even if they're not Governor levels in every respect yet.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I'm not ignorant to the concept of moral relativism or shows/films like The Sopranos or The Godfather. I just don't think The Walking Dead is pulling it off effectively.
This show is just terribly bogged down right now where its supposed main character is concerned, IMO.

Oh I definitely agree with this. The show (with the exception of a few episodes) has not been communicating its themes well, or even consistently. I made a few posts on this topic, above. This episode stood out for me because it finally delivered on the thematic/symbolism front. Yes, it was different from other episodes, but then those episodes were so bogged down as you put it, that they don't really stand for much. This is where the show wants to be.

 

[Citizen87645]

Strangely, as soon as they walked into town I thought, "What ever happened to that one guy?"

 

[Richard V]

Been reading all the posts regarding the "Ricktatorship" and have to give my opinion. In a crisis, and in this case an apocalyptic, situation, in a small group, I would think you MUST have a dictatorship, hopefully a benevolent one. You have to have one guy in charge, a democracy does not work under these kind of conditions. If you are lucky, the dictator governs with a firm but thoughtful hand and does not totally turn a blind eye (no pun intended on the Governor) to the rights and needs of the others. But someone has to take the lead, otherwise you have anarchy, and the survival of the group becomes doubtful.

 

[Citizen87645]

I found this pretty amusing.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
Strangely, as soon as they walked into town I thought, "What ever happened to that one guy?"

I think they spoiled it during the previously on....at the beginning of the episode. As soon as they showed the clip from season 1, I knew who we would run into....

 

[Citizen87645]

I have a season pass from iTunes, so I've remained spoiler free previews and such. So it was quite a surprise that he showed up just minutes after I thought about him.

 

[Patrick Sun]

How's this for totally random, last night at my figure drawing class, found out that our model was the "Short Order Cook" Zombie from this week's episode. She said Michonne's blade just barely missed slicing up her chin in one of the takes.

 

[ChristopherG]

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
How's this for totally random, last night at my figure drawing class, found out that our model was the "Short Order Cook" Zombie from this week's episode. She said Michonne's blade just barely missed slicing up her chin in one of the takes.

That's pretty cool Patrick. So when do we get a look at some of the art?

 

[Patrick Sun]

Only because you asked, here's a link to a collection of really small sets of the sketches from 2012. It's always a struggle, but I use the time to clear my mind from the rest of my normal routine. http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/collections/72157629317072601/ Now back to The Walking Dead...

 

[Kevin Hewell]

Very nicely done.

 

[ChristopherG]

Patrick, Nice work indeed! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

After all of the discussion we've had in this thread about character moments versus character development, the last two episode have done a good job of the latter. Every scene in tonight's episode spoke to where each character was. At this point, Andrea's finally completely disillusioned by the Governor, having heard Rick propose perfectly reasonable terms -- or at least a perfectly reasonable starting point for negotiations -- and then heard the Governor dismiss negotiations out of hand. Michonne, used to blazing her own trail, backed Rick's call even though her inclination probably would have been to go with Meryl. Beth showed that she's willing to fire a gun. There was lots of great humanizing between the subordinates in the two camps.

Points taken. I guess it's the underlying dictator elements in Rick that have gone a bit far for my tastes, even if they're not Governor levels in every respect yet.

That was what I really liked about the last scene in tonight's episode, between Rick and Hershel. It's Rick weighing his options, feeling like he has to choose between maybe Carl's life and certainly more than one of his people's lives, and the kind of person he wants himself to be. He knows turning over Michonne would likely be pointless and would ruin what's left of his soul. But he's also at a desperate enough place that he's probably willing to make that sacrifice for the slim hope that that could end things. The end exchange was very telling, where Hershel asks Rick why he's telling him all of this, and Rick answers that he hopes Hershel will be able to talk him out of it. That's good writing. It takes the decision making away from the plot, and restores agency to the characters. When Rick puts it like that, it takes away the sense of inevitability. The two camps are going to war either way, but what decision Rick makes will dramatically change the circumstances.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

It's always a revelation when people can watch the same thing and yet come away with widely different reactions. Fascinating write up Adam but I was left with a totally opposite reaction. This episode was a real snoozer. Character development is fine, though for pacing, mixing it up is always better ie last week's episode. The problem here was the scene between Rick and the Governor was dragged out far too long. At max their meeting should have been no more than 10 minutes of screen time. As for the rest of the characters their moments signify little because, given the show's track record, most of it is likely to be swept under the rug any how. Properly structured the first half of the episode should have dealt with the parlay. The second half should have showed each side gearing up and the episode should have ended up with them about to meet in battle. We already know where the story is going to go and now we have to wait for the show to catch up to us. The 'giving up Micchone' idea is a total story stalling tactic. Rick has already acknowledged that the Governor is going to kill them all so the supposed struggle about giving her up carries zero dramatic weight or emotional investment at all. So any anguish Rick is feeling at the end of this episode is all sound and fury signifying nada. This episode highlights how the show stumbles when it tries to handle more than two or three characters at a time. Especially compared to the previous week's episode.

 

[Joe_H]

I pretty much agree with Lou. After a great episode last week, this was back to the doldrums. The whole episode was a stalling tactic, not just the Michonne thing. They know all about the horrible stuff the Governor has been doing, so the idea that Rick would ever trust a 'deal' made with him is idiotic. And then the stupidity outside the meeting was even worse. Let's throw a handful of non-threatening zombies at the people outside so Daryl and other-Daryl (I don't know his name because he's never been the slightest bit useful) can get a bromance going. Oh, and let's have both camps stupidly bring their only doctors to a dangerous meeting just so they can bond too. It's the same garbage that they always try to do... giving these formerly completely useless characters the slightest hint of a backstory in order to drum up emotion right before the drama happens (T-dog, the prisoner guy, etc.) And for all the time they spent on a pointless meeting, they could have given just a minute of exposition before the meeting took place, because it seemed like too much of a jump from the positions the sides had taken before... nobody trusts Andrea, and then all of a sudden they're agreeing to her proposal?

 

[TravisR]

And then the stupidity outside the meeting was even worse. Let's throw a handful of non-threatening zombies at the people outside so Daryl and other-Daryl (I don't know his name because he's never been the slightest bit useful) can get a bromance going. Oh, and let's have both camps stupidly bring their only doctors to a dangerous meeting just so they can bond too.

I liked those scenes quite a bit. I thought they were similiar to the stories of opposing soldiers in World War I talking to and well-wishing each other when they were hiding in the trenches at night and then the next day, they'd kill each other.