Voyager: Dark Frontier/Endgame

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Yee-Ming, Feb 19, 2003.

  1. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    this is old stuff, but a friend asked if Dark Frontier was set before or after the movie First Contact. I am not sure myself and can't remember the stardates involved, but believe that Dark Frontier is probably after FC. in any case, Voyager's finale is undoubtedly set after First Contact.

    which begs the question: if the Borg Queen was destroyed in First Contact, who is Seven dealing with in Dark Frontier; and who is Admiral Janeway dealing with in Endgame? especially since for Endgame they managed to get Alice Krige to reprise her role as Borg Queen. (and Susanna Thompson in Borg makeup looks uncannily like Alice Krige in Borg makeup)

    my theory was that the Borg might be like bees: if the queen bee is removed (or killed), the worker bees "raise" another queen. so perhaps when the collective realised their queen had perished, they somehow built a new one who assumed leadership of the collective.

    I've been looking at Voyager fan sites out on the net but haven't found any that discuss this point.

    so what do esteemed HTF members think?
     
  2. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Pretty much that's what supposedly happened, is that they just clone another queen on the same basic design. The only reason why Dark Frontier Queen looked different is because Alice Krige was otherwise engaged
     
  3. Rex Bachmann

    Rex Bachmann Screenwriter

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    Yee-Ming wrote (post #1):

     
  4. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    ah, I was wondering when the esteemed Rex would chime in on a Voyager thread!

    thinking about the issue, it seems that if the Borg are a hive mind, then the so-called Queen should simply be a "representative", if you will, of that hive mind, in helping lesser individual minds deal with the concept.

    e.g. Janeway, being a Captain, is used to speaking on behalf of Voayger and in dealing with another captain in sorting out disputes between the two vessels. so it helps us lesser species to deal with a "Queen" who (appears to) lead the entire collective and can negotiate on the entire collective's behalf.

    this is of course flawed, in that in a true collective mind, any single drone at any time can be the focus of the entire collective's will and can be imbued, so to speak, with the authority to act on the entire collective's behalf. having a specific unit designed to look like different and act full-time as the "Queen" is inefficient, to use the favourite word of our favourite Borg babe.

    but to try and make sense of it I guess this is as good an explanation as any.

    looking at the time paradox issue, although the events took place in 2063 rather than 2372, the Borg Queen and her craft came from 2372, so going forward from the time she left, she doesn't come back and now no longer exists in the time-line, and would need to be replaced. (to avoid confusion with time paradox, think of it as just travelling to another location, she got destroyed there, and therefore thereafter she no longer exists.) e.g. if she left on 6 June 2372 to 2063, from 7 June 2372 onwards there is no Borg Queen in the 2372 timeline and she would need to be replaced, to encounter Seven again later in 2374 and Admiral Janeway (of 2402!) in 2376.

    bleh, my copy of the Trek Encyclopedia is at home, so I can't check the dates [​IMG] (how anorak-y is that?)

    edit: managed to find online sources that sorted out the years, and I tweaked them above. errors are, of course, still my responsibility... [​IMG]
     
  5. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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    There is no Borg Queen, and First Contact along with the relevent episodes of Voyager never happened. [​IMG]
     
  6. Dan Rudolph

    Dan Rudolph Producer

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    It would make sense to have a specially designed queen as a representative. If you used any drone, whoever they were speakign with wouldn't have the feeling they were dealing with someone in authority. The Borg Queen is an extension of the idea they got with Locutus.
     
  7. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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    Well, that presupposes that the Borg care about having a "representative" or speaking with anybody. Which it shouldn't. Its defining characteristic when we first saw the first cube was that it was this gigantic, efficient, homogenous mass. It's got no interest in talking with you - anything you have to say it will learn when it assimilates your bodies and data storage into itself. The only communication it needs with the outside most of the time is "we are the Borg, here's your chance to be voluntarily assimilated".

    But, that's what nobody in Trek seems to have gotten about the Borg from "The Best Of Both Worlds" forward: The Borg is an it, not a they. It's intelligent cancer on a galactic scale.
     
  8. Rex Bachmann

    Rex Bachmann Screenwriter

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    Yee Ming wrote (post #4):

     
  9. Paul E. Fox II

    Paul E. Fox II Second Unit

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    By the way, didn't the Queen say something like..."you humans are so small" when she was asked how she survived her reputed destruction by Picard during First Contact? I seem to remember some sort of retort to that effect, but that may NOT be the exact quote.
     
  10. Lee Jamilkowski

    Lee Jamilkowski Stunt Coordinator

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    http://www.startrek.com/library/borg.../borgqueen.asp

     
  11. Rex Bachmann

    Rex Bachmann Screenwriter

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    Paul E. Fox, II wrote (post #9):

     
  12. Paul E. Fox II

    Paul E. Fox II Second Unit

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    Thanks Rex....

    I knew it was in there somewhere...
     
  13. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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