Volume through pre-amp outs

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Chad_, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. Chad_

    Chad_ Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have observed that the volume seems to be low when I use the pre-amp outputs to another receiver for my front speakers.

    The setup is: Pioneer 1014 receiver for center, and surround speakers, with the subwoofer, left and right fronts through the pre-amp outs. The fronts go to a NAD 7600 PE receiver (150 watts per channel - it has a NAD 2600 amp in it) to use it's amp to drive them (my fronts are 4 Ohms).

    The "question" I have is... the volume on the NAD needs to be turned waaaay up to get the volume level of the fronts equal to the volume of the other speakers. I could barely hear anything with the volume knob turned half way up... however, I am able to get the volume "equal" somewhere around 3/4 to 4/5ths of the way around the volume dial.

    I also should note that I currently have the pre-amp outs going into the CD input on the NAD 7600. When I put the left and right preamp outs into the "Normal In" connectors... the volume level was even lower... requiring a higher volume setting to get a match to the volume on the center/surround channels. Ideally I would be inputing the preamp outs into the Normal In (or Lab In?) connections on the back of the NAD? It has a removeable bridge to disconnect the preamp from the amp section and just use the amp.

    Is it "normal" to have to crank the volume setting on an amp/receiver to get it 'matched' in volume to the other speakers?? Probably a silly question... but it's best to ask and know than potentialy do something stupid and damage equipment (or just get sub-par performance).

    Thanks for any input/advice/anything!!
     
  2. Bryan Pape

    Bryan Pape Auditioning

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not 'normal' to use 2 receivers. Generally, one would use an external multichannel amp for all the channels so you would not have the imbalance. What you likely have is a mismatch between the input sensitivity of the Pioneer amp section and the NAD amp section.

    I would suggest trying to up the levels in the Pioneer for those channels that are being 'outsourced' to the NAD. This would allow you to run the NAD with it's volume lower. It won't really make any difference in the overall output - but just give you more control over things on the NAD side.
     
  3. Chad_

    Chad_ Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, it isn't my intention to use 2 receivers. The NAD 7600 has jumpers that can be removed to seperate the pre-amp from the power-amp. That allows it to just be used as a power amp (it contains the NAD 2600 power amp).

    I'm guessing what I'm experiencing is "normal", as even a seperate power amp would have a volume control. It's just a matter of raising the volume to the appropriate level - and it seemed I had to raise the volume quite high on my NAD - and that was my only concern. Once I get the NAD volume matched to the other channels on the Pioneer (center, and surrounds) I then just use the Pioneer's volume to make any volume changes to the system.
     
  4. Scott Lawrence

    Scott Lawrence Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    This might be a dumb question but did you try re-running MCACC auto calibration after adding the NAD? Maybe try setting the NAD volume to about half and see what the auto calibration does.
     
  5. Chad_

    Chad_ Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Scott,

    The first time I ran MCACC it actually didn't detect my front speakers (I had the NAD volume exactly half way). They didn't make enough sound for the mic. to pick them up. I increased the volume to about 3/4 and it set the front speakers at +10db (the most it compensates I believe). So I guess I need to increase the volume more and rerun MCACC again.. but thought I'd ask about this here first. Keep in mind I currently have the inputs into the CD input and the jumpers still on the NAD, instead of the 'Normal In' with the jumpers removed to isolate the amp. When I ran it into the amp directly it had less volume.

    I think the NAD just has one of those volume knobs where it increases db's linearly... so you don't get much volume until near the end.
     
  6. Scott Lawrence

    Scott Lawrence Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah okay. I'm definitely out of my depth on this one but just wanted to verify you'd run MCACC. Sorry I can't help beyond that...good luck to you.
     
  7. Jeremy_Watson

    Jeremy_Watson Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe I am confused, but it seems to actually make sense to me that it would do this. Say you have some input and you set the Pioneer to output half of the max; This controls both the amp section and the pre-amp section. Now, if you send the pre-amp to another amp/receiver and then try to control that, it will further reduce the output to the channels it is controlling. I think you just need to choose a reasonable level on the NAD, then calibrate the output for each channel using the Pioneer.
     
  8. DaveHo

    DaveHo Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you actually using the preamp in the NAD for anything else? If not you should remove the jumpers and run the output of the Pioneer straight to the amp section on the NAD. If you are using the NAD in a sort of Home Theater Bypass mode, albeit with the volume control still active, then I don't see any problem. Most volume controls act as attenuators until turned way up. The NAD is simply attenuating the signal coming from the Pioneer until it reaches that threshold where it is actually supplying gain to the input signal. Apparently on the NAD that point on the dial is 3/4 to 4/5 of the way up.

    -Dave
     
  9. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can offer some suggestions, since my setup for the last 5 years has been HT processor to a 2-channel preamp to amps.

    Here is something to try;

    Don't use MCACC initially, instead use the Pioneer's 1014 calibration test tones or a calibration DVD with a Radio Shack SPL meter to adjust the NAD's volume control to the 75dB calibration standard (85dB for AVIA DVD).

    Do this by placing the Pioneer 1014 into manual calibration mode and turning up the NAD's volume control until the main speakers register 75dB on the SPL meter during the calibration test tones for the main speakers.

    Essentially this defines the NAD's "passthru" or "unity gain" volume control position (where it provides zero gain or reduction).

    Mark this volume control position on the NAD so you know where it is.

    Now you could go back and use the auto-setup of your Pioneer 1014.
     
  10. Chad_

    Chad_ Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the advice!! [​IMG]

    If I remove the jumpers and just use the amp... which inputs should I use on NAD.... the Lab In, or Normal In?? I don't have a manual for the NAD 7600 and I'm not sure what the difference is...

    Thanks!
     
  11. DaveHo

    DaveHo Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless I misunderstand what you mean by Lab & Normal, neither. By removing the jumpers you are separating the preamp & amp sections of the NAD. You would then connect to the amp inputs, which would be where the jumpers were. On NAD equipment I think these are labeled "Main In". This will completely remove the NAD's preamp section, hence the volume control, from the signal path.

    This is all assuming you have nothing else plugged into the NAD and are not using it's tuner. Otherwise follow Bruce's instructions.

    -Dave
     

Share This Page