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Vinegar Syndrome SHOWGIRLS 4K UHD (1 Viewer)

titch

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My copy hasn't yet been shipped, but I've had this since the LaserDisc and the Las Vegas show scenes were always eye-poppingly colourful. Doesn't seem right that the picture is now desaturated. Quite a few of Vinegar Syndrome's 4K UHD titles are reference quality (the repressed Flesh For Frankenstein, From Beyond, Six-String Samurai, RAD, Tammy and the T-Rex, The Incredible Melting Man). I'm not cancelling my order, but I'm not quite as excited for this release now.
 

JoshZ

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My copy hasn't yet been shipped, but I've had this since the LaserDisc and the Las Vegas show scenes were always eye-poppingly colourful. Doesn't seem right that the picture is now desaturated. Quite a few of Vinegar Syndrome's 4K UHD titles are reference quality (the repressed Flesh For Frankenstein, From Beyond, Six-String Samurai, RAD, Tammy and the T-Rex, The Incredible Melting Man). I'm not cancelling my order, but I'm not quite as excited for this release now.

Vinegar Syndrome claim that they based the transfer on “an existing director approved 4K studio master.” I'm sure the VS argument will be that they were honoring director intent. However, it's not clear when or where that master was created, or how long ago Verhoeven approved it.

The yellow tint is very reminiscent of the LUT issue that plagues titles "restored" at L'Immagine Ritrovata, which makes me wonder if the studio master came from there.

I'm working on a full review with more image comparisons. Since Monday is a holiday, it should be ready to post on Tuesday.
 

Neil S. Bulk

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It seems to be the same 5.1 track from the older Blu-ray. I didn't compare the audio extensively, but nothing stood out to me as being new.
There are multiple reports of the surround channels being out-of-sync with the main channels, mostly noticeable during the music numbers.
 

JoshZ

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There are multiple reports of the surround channels being out-of-sync with the main channels, mostly noticeable during the music numbers.

I didn't notice it. Can you point me to a discussion with examples? Thanks.
 

JoshZ

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I can't imagine how this could even have happened. The movie had 5.1 audio theatrically. It doesn't sound to have been remixed (nor did it have any need to be). I would expect that Vinegar Syndrome licensed the existing 5.1 master from MGM. How that could result in the surround channels being out of sync now is baffling.

However, I will say that the set has a couple of other authoring issues that bugged me. The movie is only given a total of 7 chapters for the entire feature, which is far too few for a film of this length. The vintage making-of featurette on disc 3 is also authored as separate titles rather than chapters, so my player reports it as being 5 minutes long (the length of the first chapter) when it's actually much longer in total.
 

Josh Steinberg

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The movie is only given a total of 7 chapters for the entire feature, which is far too few for a film of this length.

I think Vinegar Syndrome does chapters arranged to simulate where the reel changes on the 35mm prints would have been, so they tend to have fewer chapter stops across the board than other labels.
 

JoshZ

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Neil, thanks for the info you PM'ed. I just did a quick check comparing the VSU 4K, the VSU Blu-ray, and the older MGM Blu-ray.

Both of the VSU discs are identical to each other.

I can confirm now that there is some difference in the surround delay between the MGM and VSU tracks. I think you'd have to be much more musically inclined than I am to notice this. Honestly, the only place where the VSU track sounds "wrong" to me is at 28:48 (around 29:12 on the MGM), where the song vocals are out of sync between front and rear. However, even then, the song itself has so much digital processing and reverb that I personally would never have known it wasn't supposed to sound that way without something to compare against.

Again, a music person (especially a music engineer who does this professionally) might pick up on this faster and be more bothered by it. I'm not going to dismiss that there's a legitimate technical issue here, but I doubt the average listener would ever notice. IMO.

A few of those time codes listed in the thread on the other forum, I couldn't hear any difference. In fact, a couple of them didn't even seem to have any surround activity at those times at all. Maybe those were typos? I don't know.
 
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Jeffrey D

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I think Vinegar Syndrome does chapters arranged to simulate where the reel changes on the 35mm prints would have been, so they tend to have fewer chapter stops across the board than other labels.
I know they have chapter stops at reel changes for their adult films, but can’t comment on their non-adult ones (I have the UHD of Dead Heat, but haven’t gotten around to screening it yet).
 

JoshZ

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I think I may have found another problem. The booklet enclosed with the set contains three critics' essays about the film. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like the first two are each miscredited to the wrong author.

The first essay is credited to Abbey Bender and the second to Adam Nayman. Yet the first essay opens with a reference to its writer having penned the book "It Doesn't Suck: Showgirls" - which was written by Nayman, not Bender.
 
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titch

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Review is now live. More picture comparisons included re: the color transfer differences.

https://videofileblog.com/showgirls-1995-4k-ultra-hd-bluray-review
That's a good in-depth review and caps-a-holic hasn't yet posted any screen comparisons - your screenshots are definitely extremely different in colour from the blu-ray. I never saw this theatrically (and nobody else did either), but I don't listen to anyone claiming to recall colour grading from watching a 35 mm print 30 years ago, on their local cinema screen. I have the German Capelight 4K UHD and it is rubbish. I also have the MGM blu-ray, which is gaudy and colourful but you can't trust that a blu-ray was faithful to the theatrical version (see all the tripe written about the 4K Three Colours Trilogy).

Screenshots plastered around various sites might be correct, but then they might not.



An original set of lobby cards listed on eBay looks as though the pictures have a yellow sheen - but dye fading can also affect colours over 30 years.


So, I guess this release is going to be "controversial" and internet forums will be full of people (who never purchase Vinegar Syndrom releases anyway) throwing their opinions around.
 

bujaki

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That's a good in-depth review and caps-a-holic hasn't yet posted any screen comparisons - your screenshots are definitely extremely different in colour from the blu-ray. I never saw this theatrically (and nobody else did either), but I don't listen to anyone claiming to recall colour grading from watching a 35 mm print 30 years ago, on their local cinema screen. I have the German Capelight 4K UHD and it is rubbish. I also have the MGM blu-ray, which is gaudy and colourful but you can't trust that a blu-ray was faithful to the theatrical version (see all the tripe written about the 4K Three Colours Trilogy).

Screenshots plastered around various sites might be correct, but then they might not.



An original set of lobby cards listed on eBay looks as though the pictures have a yellow sheen - but dye fading can also affect colours over 30 years.


So, I guess this release is going to be "controversial" and internet forums will be full of people (who never purchase Vinegar Syndrom releases anyway) throwing their opinions around.
I did see it theatrically (gasp!), but can't recall the color.
 

titch

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I did see it theatrically (gasp!), but can't recall the color.
Well, of course YOU did :) It was never afforded a theatrical release in Norway, sadly. I trust you have the 4K UHD of Benedetta, then?
 

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