Very awkward floorplan, please help me figure out my surround placements

Bob Bielski

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I absolutely love the try this try that approach . Tells me you care enough to go through some small pain in the ass stuff to at least test and hear what you could live with. And we all know the wife ass pain. Also love your honesty about the real power BETWEEN........the 2 of you guys. Why do we let them rule? We all know that answer too.
And wise ass remark about physics,
I wish I knew the math. Want to talk decay rates, standing waves, absorption, diffraction, bass traps?
After you have the gear tweaked, then the final frontier is the room.
That is the one area where you truly can't fully control, especially with a tough floor plan. You come across to me as very intelligent so I'm sure it will be as good as it can be in the end. I've seen super expensive systems that were not properly tweaked, and modest systems that were dialed in, and I'd take the latter any day of the week. Remember to please share your findings with us so we can learn new things.
Being home from work cuz of the pandemic, I have been learning about Chinese classical music, the wide range of blues, and thoroughly expanding the ear candy reservoir.
So much to see and hear and so little time. Stay safe and ENJOY the new home theater with the boss LOL
 
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Haha it wont be much a try this and that as ill be doing it without drywall and nice fluffy walls for reflections to be absorbed.... but i think it will give me a "sense" on if i can live with ceilings doing surround duty....



Thanks again for the input everyone, feeling more confident about my choices and options going forward....
 

Bob Bielski

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I did my downstairs apartment total gut with new floor plan new floors and ceilings. i stuffed the entire house with rockwool. I used safe and sound on inside walls and ceilings and R23 on the outside walls. I ran a small boom box while doing all the insulation and like you said I loved the dead sound. Only reflection came from the floors. Much boomier after all the drywall went up. I wanted so bad to experiment
with 2 channel and surround but never did it. So along with a quieter apartment, it is fireproof and mold resistant from water. It beads right off and you can't light it up even with a torch. And you can do it your self with a bread knife and a ruler. Post some pics for us please.
 

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Post some pics for us please.
Ill save the full room shots for the finished product.... the space is a warzone currently. Waiting for the rain to let up so i can take a load or two of the demolishing waste to the dump (ive already taken 4 loads) who knew drywall and framing scraps would take up so much room haha
 
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But as requested here are pictures of something haha...


So ive been thinking of maybe getting a second woofer (seems like the cool thing to do according to the internet)...

Is my set up capable i cant really discern from the AVR manual....

Heres a shot of my AVR and the subs plate.

AvR doesnt have a labeled LFE just sub out...

In the past i had the sub hooked to the regular speaker posts labeled sub on my other AVR and never made use of the sub out on this 7.1 AVR ...

So my question is would i use a "Y" connects to hook up a second woofer? Or is it a single RCA connect to each sub...


Excuse the newbie in my questions.... im sure i havent been using my system to its full potentail......... until now



For those who may have noticed yes the sub has had its plate amp replaced... common issue for these klipsch subs that renders the whole amp kaput....




On another note... since im not going to be using the full 7... and my AVR is capable for it when used as 5.1... should I biamp my mains? They are klipsch RF-36s... they have 4 input posts so they should be capable of this no? Just remove the jumpers and run another length of cable for each main?
 

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Bob Bielski

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Using 2 subs is to even out the resonances at different positions in the room. This paper can explain it better. I am using 1 and my biggest problem in my room was the boom. I always had a very precise volume i could get on the lowest bass and if i went any louder I got distortion in the form of overload of room gain. The bass would not be tight and would not decay away quick enough to get out of the way of the next note. That pissed me off more than anything else.
Room treatment would go a long way in improvement. If you got the dough this is the way to go.
That is it for bass.
I spent hours running loops of sweeps going down to 10 hz at the same time of playing with the Q knob. The Q knob acts like a spring on the woofer. By that i mean it can make it stop super fast, or act spongey and slow. It does effect the overall low extension. I also have 2 ports on my sub and with 1 open I can get it to go as low as possible.
When i got the volume as loud as I could, and the response to go as low as I could without distortion, then I left the knob at that setting and put on some reference signals of low bass and played with the crossover with a remote from my seating position. I would use Chapter19 to 20 something it has been so long I can't remember the last chapter for the sound. I used the movie Transformers Dark of The Moon. It has some of the lowest sustained slow decaying bass to use and instantly compare crossover points by changing the crossover in increments of 10 hz. I started with my speaker response which is stated at about 40 hz before it starts dropping off. Then of course I would go to 50 up to 100hz. I ended up at 80 hz and was quite surprised that it was the average suggested crossover from THX. I read too much so I ended up finding DYI videos on YouTube making bass traps. I have made my center channel cabinet by watching videos, I did get the exact plans from a tech from the old factory who still has parts and services my brand speakers. I also fixed my snowblower this way. YouTube is pretty cool for saving money.
I liked doing the calibration of the sub myself better than just using Audyssey room correction on my AVR. At the time I was using a cheap Onkyo that went for about 350$, and the algorithm and chipset used for the Audyssey was WAY to simple. You can't expect to get powerful computing at that level. I liked the AVR and it worked pretty good for the 80 watts it put out.
I wanted more power and heavier less distorted bass at higher volumes so I upgraded to separates and went a little over board. I ended up with an Anthem P5 Statement multichannel amp and an Anthem AVM 60 for a pre-pro. The ARC room correction contained in the pre-pro blew me away and humbled me. I was able to get more volume, and less distortion using it than I could do on my own. And that was without room treatment yet. Shit was very expensive, but got the amp half price used and pre-pro new. Amp was just 5 years old so I got it. After running ARC the crossover went up to 120hz for the sub. I can share more on that later.
John can help you with the back of your AVR. It looks like you have another output for an additional sub to go to a seperate zone. So as long as it isn't the twilight zone LOL you should be able.
I am doing a 5.1.4 Atmos, DTS-X for now and don't think I will use all 11 outputs of my system. My wife already hates me for the amount of stuff in the room.
I will give you a look at my temporary set up. I still have to get 4 full size speakers up on the ceiling. They weigh about 80lbs each with the brackets so I will probably hire an installation company. When I put my system together I had no idea that ALL 9 speakers were full bandwidth and ideally sound best being ALL the same. I am one of those crazy people who loves sound, and music and movies.
I love science a lot as well so this is a very entertaining pardon the pun hobby.
If you can bi-amp the front speakers do it. It is a little bit more involved than just removing the jumpers. The benefits of having active crossovers and seperate amps designed specifically for each driver is clearer and tighter. You get rid of inter-modulation distortion by separating the low frequency signal from the high frequency signal. also take the coil in the passive crossover out so less signal loss.
I have a pair of L1230s stored in my cellar and the handbook explains in detail about the benefits of bi-amping . Very few sources on the internet explain it so thoroughly. I will send you the handbook in PDF and start reading on pg, 7. Remember John can help you with using the 2 subs. using the AVR. He is a wiz.
Hope all this crap helps you end up with a great sounding system to enjoy.
https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:3500d3e5-335e-46c0-bf03-0a277e0b4418
 

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Using 2 subs is to even out the resonances at different positions in the room. This paper can explain it better. I am using 1 and my biggest problem in my room was the boom. I always had a very precise volume i could get on the lowest bass and if i went any louder I got distortion in the form of overload of room gain. The bass would not be tight and would not decay away quick enough to get out of the way of the next note. That pissed me off more than anything else.
Room treatment would go a long way in improvement. If you got the dough this is the way to go.
That is it for bass.
I spent hours running loops of sweeps going down to 10 hz at the same time of playing with the Q knob. The Q knob acts like a spring on the woofer. By that i mean it can make it stop super fast, or act spongey and slow. It does effect the overall low extension. I also have 2 ports on my sub and with 1 open I can get it to go as low as possible.
When i got the volume as loud as I could, and the response to go as low as I could without distortion, then I left the knob at that setting and put on some reference signals of low bass and played with the crossover with a remote from my seating position. I would use Chapter19 to 20 something it has been so long I can't remember the last chapter for the sound. I used the movie Transformers Dark of The Moon. It has some of the lowest sustained slow decaying bass to use and instantly compare crossover points by changing the crossover in increments of 10 hz. I started with my speaker response which is stated at about 40 hz before it starts dropping off. Then of course I would go to 50 up to 100hz. I ended up at 80 hz and was quite surprised that it was the average suggested crossover from THX. I read too much so I ended up finding DYI videos on YouTube making bass traps. I have made my center channel cabinet by watching videos, I did get the exact plans from a tech from the old factory who still has parts and services my brand speakers. I also fixed my snowblower this way. YouTube is pretty cool for saving money.
I liked doing the calibration of the sub myself better than just using Audyssey room correction on my AVR. At the time I was using a cheap Onkyo that went for about 350$, and the algorithm and chipset used for the Audyssey was WAY to simple. You can't expect to get powerful computing at that level. I liked the AVR and it worked pretty good for the 80 watts it put out.
I wanted more power and heavier less distorted bass at higher volumes so I upgraded to separates and went a little over board. I ended up with an Anthem P5 Statement multichannel amp and an Anthem AVM 60 for a pre-pro. The ARC room correction contained in the pre-pro blew me away and humbled me. I was able to get more volume, and less distortion using it than I could do on my own. And that was without room treatment yet. Shit was very expensive, but got the amp half price used and pre-pro new. Amp was just 5 years old so I got it. After running ARC the crossover went up to 120hz for the sub. I can share more on that later.
John can help you with the back of your AVR. It looks like you have another output for an additional sub to go to a seperate zone. So as long as it isn't the twilight zone LOL you should be able.
I am doing a 5.1.4 Atmos, DTS-X for now and don't think I will use all 11 outputs of my system. My wife already hates me for the amount of stuff in the room.
I will give you a look at my temporary set up. I still have to get 4 full size speakers up on the ceiling. They weigh about 80lbs each with the brackets so I will probably hire an installation company. When I put my system together I had no idea that ALL 9 speakers were full bandwidth and ideally sound best being ALL the same. I am one of those crazy people who loves sound, and music and movies.
I love science a lot as well so this is a very entertaining pardon the pun hobby.
If you can bi-amp the front speakers do it. It is a little bit more involved than just removing the jumpers. The benefits of having active crossovers and seperate amps designed specifically for each driver is clearer and tighter. You get rid of inter-modulation distortion by separating the low frequency signal from the high frequency signal. also take the coil in the passive crossover out so less signal loss.
I have a pair of L1230s stored in my cellar and the handbook explains in detail about the benefits of bi-amping . Very few sources on the internet explain it so thoroughly. I will send you the handbook in PDF and start reading on pg, 7. Remember John can help you with using the 2 subs. using the AVR. He is a wiz.
Hope all this crap helps you end up with a great sounding system to enjoy.
https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:3500d3e5-335e-46c0-bf03-0a277e0b4418
Wow excellent info Bob thank you!


Yes to me as well, it looks like the other sub out is for the other zones.... hence a Y perhaps to send signal to two subs... it wont be true .2 since the AVR wont be able to ping each sub individuallly was wonder how most did it... or if it was even possible with this AVR... the manual does mention a "optional second sub" but doesn't define how to connect one or calibrate for one....
Thanks again for the in depth info Bob i too enjoy the sciencey aspect of the hobby, even if i am just getting my toes wet into it haha.



As far as Bi-amping the mains... the AVR can be set into 5.1 mode and then the extra 2 channels for 7 can be set to the highs for the F LR channels.
Would be nice for tight crossover.... and it might mellow the highs of these klipsch horns.

Im am wondering if removing the bridge from the 4 input posts am i essentailly making two speakers? Will that change the overall impedence of the high and lows for the tower...

My AVR is only rated for as low as 6 ohms ... if these RF35s are 8ohm speakers . Essentailly removing the bridges will half the resistance?

Klipsch has no literature online for these towers.. and since ive had them since 2005 the manuals are lost to the ages haha...
 

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@Bob Bielski , I know the idea of full size speakers for Atmos sounds cool, but as far as I know, Atmos has a non-defeatable high pass filter at 120Hz. Going to the trouble of mounting speakers on the ceiling that weigh 80 lbs. each is probably just a complete waste of effort, time and money.
 

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@Standsontoes , you connect the sub out (which is LFE) to the LFE input on the subwoofer. It only has one output for the main room, so you'd have to split it for two subs. Keep in mind that is more complicated than you might think. With receivers that have two sub outputs, you can set independent distances and levels. Splitting one makes it difficult to get phase and levels right, unless you just stack your two subwoofers. You can easily end up with far worse performance than with one sub. Two subs can be great, but two poorly placed subs will be far worse than one well placed one, and one good sub can out perform two cheap ones. My general philosophy is to buy the best sub you can afford and place it the best you can in the room. If money is virtually no object, then two outstanding subs, well located, will always beat one sub, but there are a lot variables in that. People have a tendency to just throw a sub wherever in the room, which will rarely perform well. Just throw two subs in the room, and you magnify the problems more often than solve them.
 

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Only part of the speaker that draws a significant amount of current is the woofers. And yes you are separating the low end and high end of the 1 speaker not really making 2 speakers. My speakers have a switch instead of a plate. From what I understand I think the switch takes the crossovers internally inside the speaker cabinet totally out. The whole idea is to send just the right frequencies directly to the drivers from an active crossover outside the cabinet. Separate amps per speaker and separate crossovers per speaker. Check out page 7 in the 1230 hand book and it gives graphs. I remember reading that the model I have now had a bi-amp module that was perfectly matched per driver. There is something to matching the Q factor, gain. damping, slew rate and all the critical parameters of an amp directly to a driver for synergy in performance. Not to mention getting rid of the inter modulation distortion. Passive crossovers also introduce small amounts of phase errors. Linkwitz Riley did the crossovers in my speakers, and they made some really good ones. I can give you a link and there is a lot of information, yes it is mathematics to a degree but just examples not formulas. If you have some time go crazy on this site. Vast amount of history and science.
This is my drivers being rebuilt.
And a few crossovers being recapped.
 

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Wow excellent info Bob thank you!


Yes to me as well, it looks like the other sub out is for the other zones.... hence a Y perhaps to send signal to two subs... it wont be true .2 since the AVR wont be able to ping each sub individuallly was wonder how most did it... or if it was even possible with this AVR... the manual does mention a "optional second sub" but doesn't define how to connect one or calibrate for one....
Thanks again for the in depth info Bob i too enjoy the sciencey aspect of the hobby, even if i am just getting my toes wet into it haha.



As far as Bi-amping the mains... the AVR can be set into 5.1 mode and then the extra 2 channels for 7 can be set to the highs for the F LR channels.
Would be nice for tight crossover.... and it might mellow the highs of these klipsch horns.

Im am wondering if removing the bridge from the 4 input posts am i essentailly making two speakers? Will that change the overall impedence of the high and lows for the tower...

My AVR is only rated for as low as 6 ohms ... if these RF35s are 8ohm speakers . Essentailly removing the bridges will half the resistance?

Klipsch has no literature online for these towers.. and since ive had them since 2005 the manuals are lost to the ages haha...
If you aren't using active crossovers like Bob is talking about, which you wouldn't be, it's highly debatable whether bi-amping does any good. Also, Klipsch speakers are extremely efficient, so any benefit is reduced even more. Regarding the harshness of them, that's simply a characteristic of the speaker. Horn drivers are the main reason they're efficient, but horns have a "Horn" sound that really puts off some listeners. I'm one of them. I find I prefer speakers with as wide dispersion as possible, and horns by their very nature, have a narrow dispersion.
 
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Yes, my AVR's biamping functionality wont be a true bi amp set up ( no stand alone xover, and obviously one amp instead of one amp per range)

However i was figuring that setting it up this way might give some benefit. I was initiailly thinking it would make the crossover point just a little sweeter and defined but i guess klipsch already has that done well in thier towers

But after some more googling the consensus for these towers is biampimg has no pluses over just getting a more powerful receiver, which for my space and set up i already have plenty of power...

Horn drivers are the main reason they're efficient, but horns have a "Horn" sound that really puts off some listeners. I'm one of them. I find I prefer speakers with as wide dispersion as possible, and horns by their very nature, have a narrow dispersion.
I personally like the way horns sound.... for music.... but sometimes it gets a little sharp when watching movies....

Give and take though as with anything....



As always thanks for the quick inputs, i knew i was gonna get answers today off this forum... thank you again.

So onward with construction... ill post what i decide on for the ceiling driver dilemma, and ill probably be back with more ?'s when i get to the calibration stage of things.
 

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@Standsontoes , you connect the sub out (which is LFE) to the LFE input on the subwoofer. It only has one output for the main room, so you'd have to split it for two subs. Keep in mind that is more complicated than you might think. With receivers that have two sub outputs, you can set independent distances and levels. Splitting one makes it difficult to get phase and levels right, unless you just stack your two subwoofers. You can easily end up with far worse performance than with one sub. Two subs can be great, but two poorly placed subs will be far worse than one well placed one, and one good sub can out perform two cheap ones. My general philosophy is to buy the best sub you can afford and place it the best you can in the room. If money is virtually no object, then two outstanding subs, well located, will always beat one sub, but there are a lot variables in that. People have a tendency to just throw a sub wherever in the room, which will rarely perform well. Just throw two subs in the room, and you magnify the problems more often than solve them.
What did I tell you Standsontoes? There is more information contained in this paragraph then in 2 of mine. Quite a bit of info that I totally overlooked. Especially the phase. So even if you could get them hooked up and with enough length of wire got them positioned well, the room correction couldn't do a darn thing to fix the subs independently. That went right over my head. Maybe it is time to just stick with one well placed good sub. I love how you state making a bad situation even worse.
Well it wouldn't be no fun if it was easy. I am getting so old now i want a disc that you can just throw into the player, and like a video test pattern disc for calibrating your display, have one for the theater set up containing a sequential set to go through and in the end of everything have every parameter measured and make small tweaks.
And John I didn't know about the high filter that was not defeat-able in Atmos. I wonder if that is how the ARC system came up with the 120hz crossover to the sub. I thought that it was rather high, but the improvement was evident.
I am not going with the large speakers on the ceiling because it is cool. I already have them in stand by and just want all 9 the same. It is overkill and a waste, but my whole life has been a waste according to the wife LOL so at least the timbre will be spot on. I am so glad that Standsontoes came to this forum to help him get his system as good as he can. How did you settle down in the basement with your system? Can you share your results with us? The daughter and granddaughter are about to go downstairs in the next 3 weeks and i will finally get my system back on track. Had to pack all the wires and cover everything for almost 3 years now to keep the baby safe. Can't happen fast enough now. I will keep an eye on this post, so please everyone stay safe and a pleasure discussing my favorite hobby with like minded gentlemen.
With so much time spent at home lately because of this virus, I have been exploring tons of new music on YouTube. I have been exploring Chinese classical, and all the strange to me instruments. I have been learning about the different styles of blues as well. I bumped into this stranger to me and wanted to share with you guys. Was searching for banjo and slide guitar blues. This guy showed me a lot. Quite talented for a younger guy. And raunchy heavy.


 
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JohnRice

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How did you settle down in the basement with your system? Can you share your results with us?
Are you asking me?

...and you give me far too much credit. What I find is that a lot of the time people take one piece of information and stop. "Can I connect two subs to my one output? Yes, you can." In reality, there are almost always a lot more factors to consider, just like with the multiple subs out of a single output. Can it be done? Sure. Powered subs always have level adjustments, but less often variable phase adjustments, rather than nothing or a 0/180 switch. That's not good enough for this situation. Even if it has it, how do you know how to adjust it? Like you pointed out, your calibration software is worthless in that case.
 
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"Can I connect two subs to my one output? Yes, you can." In reality, there are almost always a lot more factors to consider
Unlike most people I am looking for an answer that includes the "lot more factors"... i knew yes i can just willy nilly hook up as manu subs as i wanted... was wondering if it was a good idea...

However upoun digging last night it turns ot my AVR is a 7.2... not a 7.1.... so perhaps this is doable for an option .... i ran a extra sub out cable incase .
Incase i can run two now or incase in the future i can run two...


Ser heres where i sit all my cables are ran.

3 sets of speaker cable to the display wall
2 sub outs to the display wall
Optical HDMI to the display wall plate
Cat 6 Ethernet to the display plate
Cat 6 to another wall for other uses
Coax rca to the display wall for the turntable
2 sets of speaker to the rear and above ceiling( with extra for pulling through incase i hate ceilings
One fishing steel wire ran to the display wall for future cableing
One fishing steel wire ran to the roof for future Atmos

And all of that runs back to my utility room where the component rack will sit.

I also ran some AC and put in a dedicated circut for the stack to be on its own circut as the only plug in the utility room serves the sump pump and I'd hate for anything to be on that things circut and trip the breaker.

In top of that ive installed dimmable LED lights 3000k for the theater room 10 total

Rerouted the heating vents so they run along a wall and arent in the middle of the room ceiling now...

Insulated the ceiling and the new walls i put up...

Ill check back with you gents in a few weeks once i get to the set up stage of the equipment... im probably optimistic on that timeline HA!... this all depends on how much time i can get into it, as this is strictly a spare time project...

Thanks again for all the help and Input up to this point
 

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Bob Bielski

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Love that spaghetti sticking out of that wall. Now for some sauce, like maybe 1000 watts LOL. Interesting idea of running the fishing wire for the future. Never thought of that idea. Love dimmable lights, Where are you locating them? Low along the kickboard near the floor, or on the wall like sconses, or cans in the ceiling? I would love to have a dedicated room and have power drapes to go all around the room in the form of black velvet. Back when i was going crazier than I already am, I was getting into video and the light behind the screen to bias the eyes. Way back in the late 80s. I went off like I usually do and found out that like absorption on the walls for audio, that light absorption in photography is used for different reasons and that black velvet absorbs the best. Talk about blow back from the wife. Oh well just can't do it all LOL.
On the dedicated electrical circuit, did you use separate grounds? There was a good article in WideScreen review a few years back with the owner from ATI. Howard Kesslar I think. Can't remember the spelling. Like my amp some of his large multichannel amps require 2 separate 20 amp circuits for the amplifier. They don't want any powerline conditioner in the chain just straight in to the wall outlet.
They used a dedicated power supply with it's own box running straight to the telephone poll. Separate grounds and separate grounds for each circuit in the room not one common one. They also had some kind of backup uninterrupted power supply that did some kind of filtering of the power signal before going to the outlet. They claimed 100 percent voltage regulation no dips or peaks, cleaned up all kinds of noise coming down the wire from the power supplier and the power suppliers equipment, wires transformers and anything else.
My wife has 2 cousins who own their own electrical compaines, they are electricians not power suppliers. We hired one of them and when i was discussing all this crap with him he said he could hook it up for me but not the uninterruptible supply in between. He told me the service would come on it's own meter and a separate bill as well. It would have cost me close to 3 grand so I nixed that idea.
I was watching videos on YouTube yesterday about how to snake wire through walls with fire blocks and different types of insulation. Looks easy enough.
I am going to make an attempt at the speaker wire run from the rack up the wall to the attic and down to the height speakers through the ceiling. A chance to dick around.
I am talking the upstairs in my home that has not been gutted. I also thought that maybe I should have insisted on conduit in the first floor for the HDMI because they keep changing it. Like I think the latest is 2.2. I am sure real soon most of everything will be wireless.
Keep the updates coming. We will be watching.
 
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Love dimmable lights, Where are you locating them? Low along the kickboard near the floor, or on the wall like sconses, or cans in the ceiling?

On the dedicated electrical circuit, did you use separate grounds?
The lights are modern "cans" the LED is only 1/2" thick and a small wire goes to a step down box which is then wired to the AC circuit.

I basically did the perimeter of the room with those lights ... they are way brighter than i thought they would be so it was nice that i picked up versions that are dimmable... and i wont have to change a bulb in that room for 20 some years so that's a plus.

The separate circuit ground i have no idea... im not a elechicken... i know enough for basic residentail up to code...

All I did was install a new breaker on my panel and run one outlet off that breaker... guess that means its on the same ground as the rest of the house.





Did a quick hook up of everything today...tested the cables to make sure they were all still good after being pulled through joists and the one wall with sheetrock on it. Everything's still pushing electrons... so thats a relief


I wedged those stand in ceiling drivers up into the un drywalled ceiling and fired up Starwars ROTJ.... fast forward to the space battle at the end....

Had a listen ....

Put in Interstellar

Had a listen....

Had the kiddo test out his Xbox...

Had a listen....



.... so yes the ceilings work as surrounds for a 5.1.... are they acceptable.... sure?

Do they sound okay? Sure...?

I dunno.... the floor is still bare concrete, 2 walls only have drywall on them... the rest are all huge absorber panels right now.... im sitting in a foldy chair....

Tough to say if im happy with it... yes they still give a good surround image... xwings still fly around my head. My sons video game characters voices move around the room depending on where hes looking...

I think i can tell the sounds that are supposed to be beside my are now up above and so the side, but its probably cause. Im not looking at the screen... its on the floor... theres no immersion . So maybe im just paying too much attention...

Time will tell i guess....

Im going to go ahead with using the ceiling to position my surrounds, but ive heard tell of ceiling drivers with aimable tweeters that ill have to look into now.

Upward and onward
 

Bob Bielski

Second Unit
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May 29, 2016
Messages
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MA.
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Robert Bielski
Thanks for sharing. Sometimes it just don't matter. If it is acceptable then run with it. i will try to locate the interview with SAE founder , Kessler and his buddy. The guy that now owns ATI. Stay healthy and talk soon.
 

Bob Bielski

Second Unit
Joined
May 29, 2016
Messages
443
Location
MA.
Real Name
Robert Bielski
Pretty good video on cables. It has a bunch of links as well. worth a quick watch to learn something new.




 

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