Vertigo question

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Mike Broadman, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    First off: I finally got the DVD. Thanks Robert Harris and James Katz. The picture is beautiful and the sound was even better than expected.

    Plot questions (so spoilers below for anyone who hasn't seen it):

    Why did Judy jump out the window at the very end when she saw the nun? Did she think the nun was someone else? If so, who?
     
  2. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't think she jumped out; I believe Judy was startled and fell out of the tower. Judy possibly believed that it was the ghost of the real Mrs. Elster. At least that's how I think we're supposed to interpret it.
     
  3. Ray H

    Ray H Producer

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    In my opinion, this is one of the scariest movies I've ever seen. I guess dead women in paintings just freak me out a way that barfing kids and psychotic cross-dressers can't. [​IMG]

    I always thought the nun just scared her (like she did to me, heck I thought she was the grim reaper for a second!) and she was startled and accidentally fell backwards.

    What a shame. She was beautiful but Scottie had to dress her like some dead woman and ruin her life. Tsk, Tsk.
     
  4. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

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    The woman he dressed her as never existed, which makes it even more perverse (Scottie doesn't make love to Judy/Madeline until he has transformed her so he can engage in necrophilia. But since there was no Madeline, what does it become? Phantomophilia?). I'm sure that's what Hitchcock intended. Anyway, I think Scottie had it wrong: she was hotter as Judy. Seeing that red hair let down and watching this voluptuous woman walking around not wearing a bra...let's just say I very much enjoyed that portion of the film.
     
  5. MatthewLouwrens

    MatthewLouwrens Producer

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    Definitely an accidental fall. They're at the scene of the crime, she's really on edge, she's just undergone that ordeal with Scottypushing her up the stairs while ripping into her, she's scared and terrified, and then she sees a black shape appear. I always assumed she thought it was Madeline's ghost she thought she was seeing, but the Grim Reaper is possible. She was scared, tried to step backwards to move away from the shape, forgot that ther was no floor, and fell to her death.

    Daniel - Interesting take on the necrophilia angle. After a couple of screenings, it occured to me that the story is about a kind of necrophilia, and I explained this to my friends only to be told that I was wrong and I was sick. Then I read the Hitchcock interview by Truffaut where Hitchcock states that the film is about necrophilia. When I showed this to my friends, they said that this just showed that both Hitchcock and myself are sick.
     
  6. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Mike, I asked the exact same question last year, same thread title. My take is that she was not simply startled, but scared out of her wits by that ghostly appearance.

     
  7. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    Oh yeah, same thread. Huh. Oopsy.

    Didn't we also recently post the exact same thing in a Babylon 5 thread?

    Ooh, creepy.

    If she just slipped and fell, that ending feels a bit contrived. I wonder if it would be more interesting if there was no nun, and the two are "stuck" with each other's weird phobias and hang-ups.
     
  8. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

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    But she didn't slip; she was startled and backed away, causing her to fall out of the tower.
     
  9. BrettB

    BrettB Producer

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    I'm sure she was wearing heels which didn't help when she was startled and moved backward.

    Necrophilia? Interesting. Hitch, you sickie. [​IMG]
     
  10. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    I reread Holadem’s thread just so that I could remember what was written. I did not notice anyone poiting out (in either place) that the likely reason that she is startled by the nun (and therefore falls) is that she believes that the nun is the long dead Madeleine.

    Go back and watch the final scenes (begin at about the car ride to the mission). You will notice that Scottie is setting this up saying things (IIRC) like, ‘I need to do this one more thing and then I’ll be free’. And, ‘I have to go back into the past once more—because Madeleine died here.’ And ‘I need you to be Madeleine for a while.’

    And more—my quotes are probably not exact—but these scenes are filled with this dialogue.

    So when the nun appears in the shadows, Judy reacts as though Madeleine (with whom she is so strongly identified) has reappeared and is startled.

    I made my moral arguments in the other thread, so no need to restate them.
     
  11. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i just watched this for the first time a few months ago. i thought it was a great movie.

    i never thought about the necrophilia angle. while i don't necessarily disagree, i was thinking he was simply wanting the "original" back? he just loved and missed her so much that he would go to great lengths to have another opportunity...henceforth the makeover of the newfound femme.
     
  12. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    Yes, necrophilia would be the desire to have sex with a dead person. Scottie wanted a dead woman to return to life...and then have sex with her, and who could blame him. [​IMG]

    However, I can Hitch's point with Scottie not really wanting to return her to life but simply to transform the new girl into the image of the dead one. I also can see how the film would be playing on the metaphorical connection with necrophilia.
     
  13. Agee Bassett

    Agee Bassett Supporting Actor

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    Pay close attention to scene of Scottie and Madeleine in the barn just prior to her "suicide" for a viable answer.
     
  14. Ray H

    Ray H Producer

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  15. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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  16. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i was wondering when rich was gonna chime in... [​IMG]

    one thing in the back of my head.

    why did judy stay in that apartment much less the same town? i recall something about elster giving her the place, but still. wouldn't she have known there was a possibility scottie would come back?
     
  17. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Same reason they "accidentally" crossed path. She wanted to, consciously or not. Guilt.

    --
    H
     

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