Venom (October 5, 2018) (1 Viewer)

[Malcolm R]

Are we completely sure there's going to be absolutely no crossover/connection with Marvel's Spider-Man? Tom Holland is listed as a "rumored" cameo on the IMDb page for Venom.

It would seem odd to me for Sony to just hand over their exclusive on Spider-Man without any sort of minimal quid-pro-quo consideration from Marvel, such as cameos (possibly uncredited) from some of the related Marvel characters in Sony's films.

The plots won't necessarily be integrated into the MCU franchise, but the characters could make random one-off appearances in the Sony franchise. Especially if Marvel wants to use more of the Sony characters in the MCU.

 

[Jake Lipson]

It would seem odd to me for Sony to just hand over their exclusive on Spider-Man without any sort of minimal quid-pro-quo consideration from Marvel, such as cameos (possibly uncredited) from some of the related Marvel characters in Sony's films.

The quid pro quo is Disney gets to borrow Spider-Man for Avengers movies and Sony gets to borrow Avengers for Spider-Man movies being overseen by Marvel (like Tony Stark appearing in Homecoming even though Disney controls Iron Mn's film rights.) There will be another Avengers character in Homecoming 2, although it hasn't been announced who that is yet. But Venom is not a Spider-Man movie and is not being overseen by Marvel, so it shouldn't count.

The thing is that, because Tom Holland's Spider-Man exists in the MCU, a cameo from him would automatically put the entire Venom film in the MCU, even if the plot was not integrated into the MCU's overarching storylines. I'm sure Sony would love that, but I don't think Marvel is willing to allow that given that they are not overseeing production of this film and Feige is pretty rigid about quality control. Look at his face in the interview from around Homecoming's release when Amy Pascal calls Spider-Man "adjacent" to Venom, and that tells you all you need to know, I think.

The next question is, who actually holds Tom Holland's contract? Because if it's Sony with no restrictions, that's bad news.

That is a good question. I would think/hope that Marvel would have insisted on a clause in there saying that Tom Holland cannot appear as Spider-Man in any non-MCU film, because if they didn't, that's just setting themselves up for trouble.

Another question is: how many films is he signed up for? If Pascal was being honest when she said their agreement only covers through Homecoming 2, then maybe they only signed him for five films through Homecoming 2. If that's the case, he could simply refuse to return should Sony wish to put him in a non-MCU project.

I would also be extremely surprised if a Homecoming 3 were not added to this deal at some point, especially if Homecoming 2 is successful.

But, with a release date that is only two months after Avengers 4 hits theaters, Sony will almost surely want to start marketing their movie prior to the release of Avengers 4, which is going to be really awkward given how

Spoiler

Spider-Man ends Infinity War

. For this reason, I wish that Homecoming 2 would be delayed to a later release slot in 2019, where Avengers 4 could fully play out first. But since Avengers is Disney's franchise, and Spider-Man is not, Sony has no incentive to move that date in order to preserve the experience of a movie that dos not belong to them. That may cause some strain.

I don't think it's an accident that the only post-Avengers 4 MCU movie that is officially known and dated is not Disney's project. I'm not sure we would even have that there if it were totally up to Disney. Releasing Homecoming 2 two years after the first one was probably a condition of the deal. If they do add a third one, I would expect that to be July 2021.

Spoiler

Since Sony does not have any creative control on Avengers films, I wonder if their people knew how Spider-Man was going to end Infinity War? If not, that should be generating some interesting conversations soon.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Could we not have Infinity Wars spoilers in non Infinity Wars threads please?

 

[Jake Lipson]

I worded my above post carefully to not include plot specifics...

 

[TonyD]

Spoiler

Since Sony does not have any creative control on Avengers films, I wonder if their people knew how Spider-Man was going to end Infinity War? If not, that should be generating some interesting conversations soon.

That’s pretty spoiler sounding if you ask me.

Just don’t bring up other movie plot stuff in a topic that’s not that movie.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I worded my above post carefully to not include plot specifics...

I see you've edited your post to put the last paragraph in spoilers, but you also state the same exact thing in your sixth paragraph as well.

 

[TonyD]

He didn’t edit it a mod did.

 

[TonyD]

I reported the post but it still has the same spoiler in the comment.

Come on @JakeLipson this is really bad form. You’ve been around here long enough to know better.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I reported the post but it still has the same spoiler in the comment.

Come on @JakeLipson this is really bad form. You’ve been around here long enough to know better.

What's the specific problem here? Quote me the issue from that post!

 

[Jeff Cooper]

What's the specific problem here? Quote me the issue from that post!

I haven't seen Infinity War yet, so I don't know exactly how it turns out, but he mentions on two separate occasions that

Spoiler

Spider-Man ends Infinity War

which seems like a huge spoiler to me.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I believed I was being vague and that spoiler tags were not needed because the reference was not specific. My intention was to refer to it in such a way as those who have seen Infinity War know what I mean without explaining it for those who have not by referring to the point in the story without saying what happens there.

However, in light of the disagreement, if a moderator would like to edit the post in order to include spoiler tags, that would be fine with me. I would do it myself but my ability to edit it personally has expired.

Edit: Thanks to Robert for editing my previous post. Again, I would have done it myself had my editing privileges not already expired for it by the time others raised an issue about it.

This discussion veered in this direction because we were discussing the relationship between Sony and Marvel insofar as it relates to Venom and sharing the character of Spider-Man.

 

[Gary Seven]

I saw the trailer last night at the Avengers movie and as a Spider-Man fan, I have no interest in seeing this movie.

 

[Sam Favate]

I saw the trailer last night at the Avengers movie and as a Spider-Man fan, I have no interest in seeing this movie.

I have to say I agree. The trailer does nothing for me. To be honest, I never liked the character of Venom, so this idea never appealed to me. Also, I'm not what you'd call a fan of Tom Hardy (he of Star Trek Nemesis!), so I will likely sit this one out.

Of course, my kids have other ideas, so I may reluctantly see it.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I think Venom looks terrible.

I feel kind of bad rooting for a movie to do poorly, since I know people work really hard on these things. But I'm sort of hoping that Venom does poorly so that Sony will realize it's not as easy as doing a fake ripoff MCU and getting rewarded with tons of money. If Sony continues to struggle with these, maybe it will result in them ceding creative control of more characters back to Marvel proper.

It's a weird sort of relationship because, without the success of the Spider-Man films that Sony did with Sam Raimi, we probably wouldn't have the MCU in the first place. But now that we do have the MCU, Sony shouldn't be doing this on their own, even though they can.

 

[Jake Lipson]

The next question is, who actually holds Tom Holland's contract? Because if it's Sony with no restrictions, that's bad news.

For the record, I've quoted this post over in the Avengers spoilers thread so that we may continue this discussion over there insomuch as it relates to Infinity War and future plan for Holland without derailing this thread.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Well, the next Spider-Man-less Spider-Man spinoff after Venom, Silver & Black, has just been removed from the release schedule pending redevelopment and a rewrite.

https://deadline.com/2018/06/silver...ent-sony-to-find-new-release-date-1202401902/

Here's an idea, Sony: it's okay to not make a movie and let Marvel use these characters in an upcoming Spider-Man film.

 

[Malcolm R]

Venom at Comic-Con:

http://ew.com/movies/2018/07/13/venom-tom-hardy-comic-con-preview/

 

[dpippel]

I just KNOW you've all been waiting for the new trailer!

 

[Jake Lipson]

Absolutely nothing whatsoever at all in that trailer did anything to convince me that this movie is a good idea.

But again, notice the "in association with" wording prior to Marvel's name. They're trying to convince people this is in the MCU when it's not.

I will not be seeing this film at all.

 

[Chris Will]

That's a bad trailer for what appears to be a terrible movie.