1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Venom (October 5, 2018)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by dpippel, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    8,655
    Likes Received:
    5,398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
    Real Name:
    Doug
  2. Jonathan Perregaux

    Jonathan Perregaux Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Messages:
    1,845
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Real Name:
    Jonathan Perregaux
    I wasn't sure if anything (short of a superhero movie about a growing blade of grass trying not to get mowed) could supplant my utter apathy towards Aquaman... but then this happened.
     
  3. Oliver Ravencrest

    Oliver Ravencrest Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,476
    Likes Received:
    686
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Real Name:
    Ron
    I'm interested in seeing this, I like Venom as a character but I prefer him as a Villain in a Spider-man story. I'm not sure if he would work as the main character in a solo movie. We'll see how it goes,.
     
  4. DavidJ

    DavidJ Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    710
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    David
    Did y'all see the fan theory that the movie Life is actually setting up Venom? That would be brilliant and would be better than a space movie that looks and feels like one we've seen many times before.
     
  5. Message #5 of 227 Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    1,955
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Sean
    I'm not too wild about this.

    Unlike the new Spider-Man, this isn't being done by Marvel Studios. So is it part of the MCU without Marvel's involvement? That seems unlikely. Is it its own separate thing not related to Spidey? That would be odd since that is a major part of what this character is. And if it is separate, most movie goers would still remain clueless about the distinction.

    Plus, if separate, that would seem to limit Marvel's story options to eventually explore this story (properly) in future films. No
    Spidey finding the black suit while off-world during Infinity War, etc...
     
  6. Message #6 of 227 May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    8,655
    Likes Received:
    5,398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
    Real Name:
    Doug
  7. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    3,700
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    and Spiderman should be back in the hands of Sony by the time the sequel is made so win/win.
     
  8. Message #8 of 227 May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    1,955
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Sean
    Tom Hardy is an interesting choice, but I still find this whole thing to be completely bizzare.

    That Sony is going ahead and developing a "Sony Marvel" universe (Venom, Silver Sable, etc...) using Spider-Man characters but not using Spider-Man (since Sony's new Spider-Man series is part of the MCU and these are not part of the MCU) is just really weird and confusing.
     
    Jake Lipson and Josh Steinberg like this.
  9. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    34,114
    Likes Received:
    11,378
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    The basement of the FBI building
    Tom Hardy sure has the physicality for Eddie Brock (aka Venom).
     
  10. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    1,955
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Sean
    Well, Spider-Man never left Sony's hands. He's still there. The new Spider-Man movies are Sony's movies. Sony is just wisely letting Marvel Studios produce the movies for them and they both benefit from the collaboration. Sony gets a Spidey that is part of the popular and successful MCU. Marvel gets to use this same new version of the charter in their MCU movies. That's the win-win, and a smart move by Sony (and Marvel).

    But Sony going ahead and pushing to develop other movies using Spider-Man characters that aren't part of the MCU and don't use Spider-Man seems to be a really concerning prospect. We already saw what happened when they tried too hard to develop their "Spidey Universe" in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. It killed that iteration of the franchise. Now they're trying to do something similar again but without Spider-Man? Yikes!

    There is still a great deal not known about the specifics of what they are doing. So maybe they are actually handeling it smartly and are still respecting and taking into account what they are doing with Spider-Man in the MCU with these movies, even if they aren't officially part of the MCU. But at this point, I don't have a great feeling about this.
     
  11. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,067
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Sam Favate
    Hmmm... a character I never liked, played by an actor I never much cared for.

    Yeah, it's not winning me over.
     
    Tim Glover likes this.
  12. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    8,655
    Likes Received:
    5,398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
    Real Name:
    Doug
  13. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,155
    Likes Received:
    4,873
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Jake Lipson
    I'm not sure why Sony thinks a Spider-Man-less Venom movie, not in the MCU and not under Marvel's supervisison, is a good idea, when they got their mojo back on Spider-Man specifically by integrating him into the MCU.

    They do have an impressive cast lined up. I'll give them that much. But I still don't really have any interest in seeing this based on what I've heard so far.
     
  14. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    8,655
    Likes Received:
    5,398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
    Real Name:
    Doug
    It's not doing much for me either, but I'm willing to keep an open mind until we see the first trailer.
     
  15. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    17,740
    Likes Received:
    21,610
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    Zero interest whatsoever in any Sony-produced takes on Marvel characters that don't involve Marvel producing. The Maguire and Garfield Spider-Man movies are enough evidence to me that Sony doesn't know how to handle these properties on their own. They're out of chances with me.
     
    Sean Bryan likes this.
  16. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    1,955
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Sean
    It’s quite odd what they are doing. And it doesn’t stop with Venom. They are also doing something with Black Cat and Silver Sable (and I’ve heard other rumors as well).

    They clearly haven’t let go of the misguided idea that they could build up a “cinematic universe” revolving around one character’s supporting characters and rogues. That they are pushing forward with this stuff, without Spider-Man, is just bizarre.
     
    Josh Steinberg and Jake Lipson like this.
  17. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    8,655
    Likes Received:
    5,398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
    Real Name:
    Doug
    That in and of itself makes it at least interesting to me.
     
    Jake Lipson likes this.
  18. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    17,740
    Likes Received:
    21,610
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    Do they retain any sort of right to include Spider-Man in those titles?

    Amy Pascal from Sony said at one point that after the Homecoming sequel, they would likely not partner with Marvel any further. I only read that once and never again so I wonder if the author of the article misunderstood. But if that was a real quote, maybe they're getting all these villains ready for Spidey to fight after Homecomimg 2 is done with.

    Though I think it would be a tremendous mistake for Sony to stop cooperating with Marvel. I wouldn't pay to see another Spider-Man that's unconnected to the MCU at this point.
     
    Jake Lipson likes this.
  19. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,155
    Likes Received:
    4,873
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Jake Lipson
    The thing is that because Tom Holland's Spider-Man has been firmly established as part of the MCU, if Holland is in it, that automatically means that the film exists within the MCU.

    I assume Marvel must have a provision in their deal to preclude Holland's Spider-Man from appearing in a film that they did not supervise, because that automatically sullies their brand, and they've been extremely careful about brand consistency and quality control over there.

    Whether Sony would have the right to include another Spider-Man who is not Tom Holland in one of these villain offshoots is an open question. I would not be interested in that, either. While I am impressed by the cast of this film, I am not really interested in seeing this, either, precisely because Sony is doing it on their own.

    That also brings up the question of whether or not the average moviegoer will understand that the Venom film is not part of the MCU. We do because we follow this sort of thing on the internet and discuss it here, but we are film enthusiasts, not the typical casual film consumer. If people know that Spider-Man is now in the MCU, and Venom is one of his villains, it wouldn't be a particularly hard assumption to think that the Venom film is also in the MCU. I'm sure Sony would love for most people to make that mistake because it would rub off well for them if that were to be the case. In contrast, Marvel will have to figure out a way to distance the MCU brand from these kinds of projects so that your average moviegoer doesn't confuse the two, especially if Venom ends up being bad. Their more elaborate theme music and logo on their recent films is probably a good start, but since the Marvel logo will be on Venom regardless, I'm not sure it's quite enough.

    I also do not believe that Homecoming 2 (or whatever it actually ends up being called) will be the last we see of Holland in the role, either. There is no reason to expect that the first sequel will be anything other than extremely successful, both because Homecoming was well-received and because Holland will receive additional exposure in two Avengers films before we get to that one. So, Sony will see a huge profit off of the Homecoming sequel, and they'll want another one. Peter was a sophomore in Homecoming, correct? (It's been a while since I've seen it.) If that is the case, I'm sure the intention is for Tom Holland to have, at the very least, a trilogy of solo films to take him through his high school graduation.
     
    Sean Bryan likes this.
  20. Message #20 of 227 Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
    Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    1,955
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Sean
    I'm not sure of the specifics of their arrangement with Marvel, but technically they never gave any rights back over to Marvel, they just used Marvel to produce their movie and allowed them to use their character (same version) in the Marvel movies. So maybe they can use Spidey in these non-MCU movies but there has been no indication that they will and it would be colossally stupid (even for them) to sabotage their character again by confusing audiences.

    As far as what she said for after Homecoming 2, here is her quote:

    Now I'm sure some read that and jumped to "she said they're done after the sequel! It'll never happen again!" But I believe what she was saying is that this type of arrangement is extremely rare and unique, you are unlikely to see anyone else ever doing a similar arrangement, and that the specific arrangement they made included Homecoming 1 & 2 and Avengers 3 & 4. That part with those movies is what has been set is stone and planned for so far. But of course it wasn't a deal that is "in perpetuity" without specific plans. Again, some think that means they will sever ties with Marvel once those 4 movies are done, but that's not in their best interest. I'd expect that as long as things go well over the next 3 movies they will continue the collaboration with Marvel. They lose nothing by having Marvel run the production and gain significant positive exposure (and get free advertising) by letting Marvel use Spidey in Avengers movies.

    But they are also greedy and stupid and short sighted, so they seem to feel that they need to use other characters under the Spide-Man license to build their own "side" cinematic universe. So I guess that is further evidence that they are just stupid enough to screw up and not continue the arrangement with Marvel after the current plan.
     
    Josh Steinberg and Jake Lipson like this.

Share This Page

Movie information in first post provided by The Movie Database