Veneerer respect

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Mark_J_H_Jr, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a new found respect for “veneerers”.

    I am in the finishing stages of a couple of speaker stands. Made from ¾ in MDF with cherry veneer. I put some ¾ inch radii on the corners of the MDF.

    I had a heck of a time keeping the veneer down around the corners and splicing it together. Although I got better after practice, I am really disappointed in the finished product. Some of the things I screwed up were:

    Sanded through the veneer

    Misaligned the spliced pieces

    Glued a piece of wood I was using to clamp to the veneer and ripped the veneer off

    Split the veneer going around the ¾ in corners

    Split the veneer while gluing it down

    Pulled the veneer away at the edges during trim and handling

    Did not get the veneer glued down over the corner, left gaps I can push in

    Broke the MDF because I clamped too hard


    So, I think I covered all of the possible screw ups. Maybe next time I will get it right or at least not make as many mistakes.

    Questions, how do you make sure when you wrap veneer around a tight radius, you keep it from gapping? And, when “hammering” the veneer down, how do you know when you’re done? The only way I got it to stay stationary or flat was to clamp the heck out of the surface I was gluing. Even then, if when I was clamping, the veneer moved with respect to the MDF as I tightened the clamps.

    I used raw veneer i got for free and used PCV adhesive per John Janowitz. The finish is a product called Deft, and it actually looks very nice. Crappy veneering job and great finish.

    I'll just tell everyone I got them custom made from Brian Bunge. [​IMG]
     
  2. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First off, AFAIK, you don't wrap raw veneer around corners! [​IMG]

    Secondly, I always sand the veneer by hand so there's little chance of sanding through.

    Thirdly, I'm broke enough without you ruining my reputation![​IMG]

    And fourthly, maybe you'll reconsider having someone else build those line arrays for you! [​IMG]

    And fifthly are thirdly, fourthly, and fifthly words!
     
  3. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He he...

    Yup, it looks easy don't it [​IMG] I'd suggest a bit more research before diving in with the veneer next time. Find out how the pro's do it, you'll find a few easy tips will make your life a whole lot easier.

    Tip #1: Use contact cement and a J-roller or squeegee
    Tip #2: Use 10mil paper backed veneer or NBL
    Tip #3: No need for clamps

    Darren
     
  4. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree with Brian and Darren.
    Do a little research first hand as well as try your method on a sample first before you try to send out a message that a class cabinet maker made your mess.[​IMG]
     
  5. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian,

     
  6. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark_J_H_Jr,

    The fumes are good for you! [​IMG] You should definately use the contact adhesive in a well ventilated area... that's for sure.
     
  7. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do have to say that the Solvent contact is very hard to take.But it works the best with out getting into costly epoxys.

    AllanRW no E
    Times like these and boards like this is were a persons rep can be got or broke.
    So yarding a chain is one thing even in a fun way on your behave.
    Just try to keep the fingers down but use them when they are needed.

    All in the fun of this hobby.
    And I have got NBL even up to Canada after Brian turned me on to it.
    The Teak is nice stuff and just lays over the coners of a 3/4" round over with no force at all.The Maple is a lot stiffer due to the oils in the Teak is is softer.
    I am just finishing 4 sets of the Super Elf with them and the Teak worked great I will add.
    And shipping to Seattle for the NBL was $14.00

    Al
     
  8. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark_J_H_Jr, another tip on fumes!

    You can also laminate veneer using standared yellow wood glue or more appropriately Titebond yellow glue in an interesting way. You roll the glue out on the veneer and the cabinet, let it set up a bit so it is tacky to the touch but not extremely wet. You then roll or squeegee the veneer down and use a hot iron to re-activate the yellow glue creating quite a nice bond. It takes a little practice but works. I've tried it. No fumes either [​IMG]
     
  9. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    DT,

    Thanks,

    I've got some Titebond, but understand that it has the potential to disbond if you let it get hot again. I think I read somewhere that someone had an amp sitting on veneer and Titebond bubbled. I used some of the "iron" on wood veneer years ago and it bubbled too.

    I was trying the same sort of thing with the FSV glue, trying to let it dry enough to get tacky and then hammer the veneer down. Varying degrees of success.

    Hey, I'm all for the contact cement. I am sure that it would be much better on the corners. I will just have to do it outside and keep peace in the house.
     
  10. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark_J_H_Jr,

    I'd have to agree that going outside with the contact adhesive is probably the best way to go. It's nearly fool proof if you are patient with the process. Just be sure to tape the edges of the cabinets off where you already have veneer before rolling on new adhesive on the top and bottom. This will aleviate a HUGE headache as you won't have to try and remove the adhesive from your pretty veneer. Take your time and study your cabinet and get a game plan before getting to business. It will help you isolate possible trouble areas.
     
  11. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark,

    I knew you were joking. That's why I put a [​IMG] in my response to that![​IMG]

    Darren,

    If we get contact cement on adjacent sides I can usually get it off with mineral spirits. I get the no odor (actually very light odor) kind and it works fine.
     
  12. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian,

    Yeah, I use the same stuff but it never comes off easily for me. [​IMG]
     
  13. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh and Mark, AFAIK=As far as I know![​IMG]
     
  14. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,749
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    FYI: If you want to see how the glue-and-iron-on veneer method is implemented, please check out my Speaker Finish webpage.
     
  15. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That would be Pat, the picture whore![​IMG]
     
  16. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,749
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    That's Mr. Picture Whore to you!
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    'Scuse me, SIR![​IMG]
     
  18. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mr. P. W.,

    I am more impressed with your piano black finish of the sub you did, but appreciate your well detailed photo chronology of your speakers.

    Guess the bottom line for me is that this was a project I took short cuts and tried out new things. Got burned.

    I realize it will be quite a while and numerous more mistakes before I am an accomplished "veneerer".

    I appreciate all of the coaching and help.

    Have to decide on the next project: Tumult, Line Array or IB.
     
  19. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ooh, ooh, I know!

    How about an array of Tumults in an IB?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I really hate it when an orbital sander is used to speed up the sanding and then it ends up sanding through to the MDF. I'm not really a fan of veneers but I have done it on pre-laminated wood.

    Anyways, my friend recently built 2 boxes using a new method involving pre-laminated MDF that turned out very nice.

    What he did was first glue a small 1/4" thick solid wood edge to the sides of the factory laminated box panels, and then cut them to size with the edges forming an "L" shape so that it fit into another edge. (All using a tablesaw). Then just glue the box together and you'll have a small 1/4" solid wood strip on all edges that you can slightly round or leave sharp. This proved to be much faster than building the box, then routering out the edges, and last applying solid wood to the edges and routering flush.

    At a local lumber yard, I was able to pick up a 3/4" maple 4x10' sheet for only $35, and a 1/2" 4x8' sheet of laminated maple for $15. The scrap solid wood maple was only $1 per board foot. Find out where there are professional lumber yards and check for a scrap or an overstock bin. You may be suprised to find some exotic sheets and solid wood for cheap. I was very pleased when I got to buy a board of solid maple that normally sells for $300 per sheet for only $4.
     

Share This Page