Velodyne vs SVS ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ThuanVu, Jan 19, 2002.

  1. ThuanVu

    ThuanVu Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,
    I currently own a 12 yrs old Velodyne ULD18 and just bought 2 SVS 1649CS (? the biggest)
    Hook up these SVS to my AA OM150 (150wpc) and run several movies thru my system and my conclusion is my 12 yrs old Velodyne is better bottom/more dB at lowest octet
    My question here is why are so many post positive post about the SVS ? Anyone has the same experience that I have?
    My surround sound are all full range so the sub only carry LFE .1 channel
    Another question is when running at low freq and loud, the grill with 4 srews do make rattle noise, I'm not sure howto stop/fix this. Why these screws are for?
    Many upgrade before but this time I'm not really happy
    Please advice
    Thanks
    Thuan[​IMG]
     
  2. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Your results sound atypical to me. I haven't heard the Velo that you're talking about but I do know this: you're not using nearly enough amplification to get great output at the frequencies you are talking about. Why do you think SVS packages the CS with a 350wpc amplifier?

    What is the max dB reading you get on your SPL meter at, say, 30 Hz, using the SVS subs versus the Velo? Also, how big is your room?

    --Steve
     
  3. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Thuan,
    The Velodyne UDL 18 came out with an MSRP of $2800. So first off you are comparing two subs costing a total of $1032-ish vs an almost $3k Velodyne. Sure SVS claims (and I'm not disputing) to have one of if not THE best bang for the buck among subwoofers but lets be a little fair here. A better comparison would be dual SVS Ultra's with a Samson S1000 and ART 351 to boot! This would still be $300 less than that velodyne.
    I am not very familiar with the AA OM150 but it seems to be a quality component. And since Ron and Tom have announced good results from a $99 KLH receiver I surmise that sufficient ampage is only a small part of the problem. The velo does sport a little more power. And I believe the KLH that was used fed both channels to just one subwoofer. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    So...[​IMG] Let's start off easy. How do you have your subs set up? LFE out of your main receiver (pre/pro) to the inputs on your amp I assume. Does the amplifier have any type of low freq filter that may be on? Does it have gain controls? If so, are they turned wide open (or close to it)? Have you measured with an SPL meter to be sure you not getting the same amount of base? Sometimes cleaner, tighter base can be perceived as less bass b/c it isn't so (annoyingly) present.
    I'm not a subwoofer know-it-all by any means so I'll take my temporary leave to let the real bassheads have their shot at this. Best of luck.
    Dan Hine
     
  4. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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  5. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Hi all,I currently own a 12 yrs old Velodyne ULD18 and just bought 2 SVS 1649CS (? the biggest)
    Hook up these SVS to my AA OM150 (150wpc) and run several movies thru my system and my conclusion is my 12 yrs old Velodyne is better bottom/more dB at lowest octet
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>The list price on the 18 inch VEL's is relatively high...I believe that the street price on the HGS-18 is something like $2000-2500 (still not cheap).
     
  7. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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  8. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Thuan,

    Rest assured that even if you got your subs second hand (or new, no matter) we're going to help you set things up right. If you think they don't sound at least as good at the old (but probably excellent) Velo, then certainly something is wrong.

    The fact you didn't mention anything about setting things up using a test disk like Avia or Video Essentials and a sound meter makes me think you may only have a calibration issue. Given you have a much different subwoofer system with the SVS, you can't simply lash up an amp and go (my aplogies if you did already calibrate things). You may well be running the SVS's far below their capacity and far below where you had the Velo set in terms of volume/calibration level.

    Location is critical as Tom also indicated. Make sure you have them in a corner for best performance (or at least in the same location as the Velo) for good comparisons. Moving a subwoofer even a few feet can make a massive difference in how it performs in a room. Closely related is the point about positioning two subs relative to each other. If you have them in different corners you can have some serious cancellation at work (this has nothing to do with SVS it applies to all subs). I have been able to run two subs in different corners so that you could hear nearly nothing even when they were going full blast, simply due to cancellation.

    You have a setup problem of some sort, either placement, calibration level, or again as Tom indicated a problem with your amp/receiver combination. E-mail us and we can go from there. (This tends to get a quicker response and helps us to know who you are, when you got your subs. [Who know's maybe they were damaged in shipping, though this is very rare now too]. It can be a day before we even see a thread here.)

    If you got the subs from us we'll fix the problem or take them back, simple (and it's clear there IS a problem). If you got the subs second hand we'll fix the problem anyway, though we can't accept second-hand returns obviously.

    The fact relatively low cost subs like your SVS's can significantly out perform significantly more expensive subs is no hype, the thousands of customers that know this were not fooled in some way. Some do have initial setup problems but nearly never anything we can't quickly resolve.
     
  9. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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  10. ThuanVu

    ThuanVu Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,
    Thank you for all response[​IMG]
    First thing I want to clarify is I'm not try to put down SVS product, hey I bought one. The reason I post it here because I want to set them up at its best.
    Now, my room is exact size of the 2 cars garage (right on top of it) all around speakers are Infinity Cressendo 3009 for FR/FL, 3008 for center/rear center, 3006 for SR/SL.
    The Audio Alchemy OM150 has 150wpc or 250wpc in 4ohms.
    My system is calibrated using Avia/VE, Stereofile 1,2,3 test disks ...
    I did not recalibrate when plug in SVS, just move the LFE from 400w Velo amp to the OM150 which feed the SVS. My observation is very casual so no RadioShack sound meter was used - I should say my first impression in my orig post
    May be location of the subs make the different: the Velo is close to right rear corner of the listener, but the SVS are located front left right corner, next to the front towers speakers (exact same height as SVS) - I just want to compare it first before remove the old Velo (100lbs plus)out of the room [​IMG]
    BTW, during audition, I did drive the OM150 to clipping which I assume produce more than 250wpc
    I just want to hear anyone with 18" sub from Velo, BagEnd,... that switch to SVS with happy ending
    And yes, I aware of the price different between SVS and the rest of the world
    My purchase is second hand. Someone here make an upgrade to the Ultra
    Thanks again for your input
    [​IMG]
    Thuan
     
  11. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Now, my room is exact size of the 2 cars garage (right on top of it) all around speakers are Infinity Cressendo 3009 for FR/FL, 3008 for center/rear center, 3006 for SR/SL. >The Audio Alchemy OM150 has 150wpc or 250wpc in 4ohms.

    My system is calibrated using Avia/VE, Stereofile 1,2,3 test disks ... I did not recalibrate when plug in SVS, just move the LFE from 400w Velo amp to the OM150 which feed the SVS. My observation is very casual so no RadioShack sound meter was used - I should say my first impression in my orig postMay be location of the subs make the different: the Velo is close to right rear corner of the listener, but the SVS are located front left right corner, next to the front towers speakers (exact same height as SVS) - I just want to compare it first before remove the old Velo (100lbs plus)out of the room
     
  12. ThuanVu

    ThuanVu Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the offer TV,

    My room has cathedral ceiling, from 9' to 14' in the middle.

    I found some happy camper in AVS Forum. The best answer right now is to find a good workhorse professional amp. So I'll get one QSC RMX2450 which has 750wpc into 4 ohms

    Regards

    Thuan
     
  13. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    You definitely DON'T need 750w per SVS. I would strongly suggest saving your money and going with the rmx850 instead($299 all over the net).

    I think that will be 250-300w per 4ohm load/subwoofer which will work fine.

    The QSCs do have a bit of fan noise though...so I hope you can position it a little distance from the key seating positions.

    20x24x11(ish)...almost 5500 cu-ft. Since the room is this large, it makes proper subwoofer placement and calibration even more important.(the corner nearest the key seating may ultimately provide the best performance for you...but put the SVs with the Vel as long as you want to compare them to one another)

    TV
     
  14. Pep Guidote

    Pep Guidote Agent

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    ThuanVu,

    This may be overly simplistic, but are the 16-46's wired in-phase? Also, you mentioned that you just moved the LFE from the Vel to the OM150. I'm unfamiliar with that amp, but if it doesn't "sum" the left and right channels and you are using just one (say the left) channel only, then maybe only one of the cylinders is active...

    My apologies if you've already done this. I just know that, if it was me, I might make those mistakes.

    -Pep
     
  15. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Pep,
    good points! [​IMG]
    TV
     
  16. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    I know we have had our share of "disagreements" in the past (!)...but I must say that this is very commendable customer service from Ron and Tom. [​IMG]
     
  17. ThuanVu

    ThuanVu Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,
    Thanks to Tom and Ron from SVS (?)
    But Tom, my current amp has 250wpc in 4 ohms, and it's clipping! The reason for beefer amp is for future upgrade[​IMG]
    If these CS can boom with my new amp, then I might want to go for the Ultra [​IMG]
    To Pep, I'm in this hobby for quite sometimes so all the hook up are properly. All speakers set up are base on Russ' speadsheet (SGHT)
    I'll repost the result with the new amp(not arrive yet)
    Regards
    Thuan
     
  18. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    "I'll repost the result with the new amp(not arrive yet) "
    You forgot to mention that you'd be comparing in the same corner and properly calibrated too. [​IMG]
     
  19. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    I wanted to bump this thread back up to the top. The reason it came to mind was I noticed ThuanVu (I've got a friend named Thuan, and his cousin's name is Vu, BTW [​IMG]) posted on the CS upgrade thread. I think he's upgrading his driver. This was one of the SVS threads I was following quite intently, and it just kind of faded away. I like to find out how a story ends.
    So, Thaun, did you ever get the new amps? If so, what were your conclusions? It seems you have kept the SVS and may be upgrading the drivers, so I was just curious if it took a little time to get used to the sound or what?
    Steve
     
  20. ThuanVu

    ThuanVu Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry all,
    I'm just about to tell my happy ending story[​IMG]
    Okay, I got the QSC USA1310 which has 650wpc in 4ohms.
    My 16-46CS are really boom with this power amp.
    Awesome bass. I locate my two 16-46CS side-by-side at same spot which my old Velodyne located.
    It kinda surprise me that simple product SVS (simple: no crossover, no distorsion feed back control, no damping material insert)can produce fast bass response (music)
    I would say for overall rating, I give my old Velodyne 8/10 and the SVS 10/10
    The reason I'm upgrading the CSi driver because the current CS does HIT the bottom when play the intro of Toy Story 2, AND my 650wpc amp clip light went on! Hope that new driver will have greater excursion to avoid bottom out.
    In reality, I don't see such thing as picture on wall crashed, or things move around next room that I read from many post here but at extreme level, my butt tingle and my hair on the back of my neck fell a ringing! I feel that I no longer need the bass shaker [​IMG]
    BTW: The sub location DOES make big different if you carefully calibrate it against your room. In my case, it blend very well to my room and my main speakers.
    Too bad that I forgot to use SPL meter to check the dB when it hit bottom in my environment set up, I'll check it this weekend.
    Happy listening [​IMG]
    Thuan
     

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