Using fullrange drivers

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rory Buszka, Jun 14, 2002.

  1. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm looking into designing some compact mains for college, where space is tight, and I am considering these Tangband 4" full-range speakers:
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...D=104525&DID=7
    They won't be available until August, but I'm looking into this now so I can be ready when the drivers are available.
    I want to build a pair of thin bookshelf boxes about 6" wide, 8" deep, and 24" high, ported and painted white. There will be 4 drivers per enclosure (with two sets of two drivers wired in series, and then each set wired in parallel) for about 80w RMS and 160-watt max power handling. I will be powering these with a 60w/channel reciever.
    Is this a wise choice of driver? I think the 3" version of these is used in the Logitech Z-560 THX-certified multimedia speakers. The cone moves, but the phase plug is attached to the backplate.
     
  2. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually the reason I'm going full-range is because I think crossovers are a pain to design. I may reconsider if a good enough argument is made against them.
     
  3. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Darn. They only go up to 14,000 Hz. Looks like I may need to use a tweeter after all.But they accomplish one goal: the crossover point will be really high so as not to interfere with voices. I can do this in an MMTMM fashion, but the speakers will be a lot taller, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they conserve floor space. Also, what about a down-firing port?
     
  4. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2000
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm a big fan of them also. [​IMG] Check out the fullrange site/forum/archives for much more info. http://f18.parsimony.net/forum31999/
    For best imaging/soundstaging, only one driver should be playing fullrange, with any others rolled off to offset baffle step loss, extend LF BW.
    Assuming these will be sitting out in the open, then two on the front and two on the back in a bipole configuration is best. If not, then a four square cluster is best. Doing a MMTMM will force a lower XO point, defeating some of the FR's advantages.
    Yes, the XO will be high enough to just use a cap, assuming the HF is the same efficiency as the TB in the overlapping BW.
    GM
     
  5. Rudy H

    Rudy H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm using a single TB w4-657s (4inch, aluminum cone and phase plug) as a full range surround stick tower. Should work out pretty well.
    They have a rise in response in treble, but they dont sound harsh, and listening to them in freeair, they dont *need* a tweeter, but as expected, could use one. Not needed for surrounds though [​IMG]
     
  6. rich r

    rich r Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rudy,

    I have the w4-657's and they sound awsome in free air!!!!!!


    I am interested in your full range design keep me posted on your design..

    I have yet to dessign something for my 4 w4-657's. I was thinking of a PC setup or full range towers!!
     
  7. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's what I've got so far:

    For each speaker
    4 Tangband w4-616S 4" wideband covering from 65Hz to 12kHz
    1 Tangband dome tweeter (forget which model) from 12kHz to 20kHz


    and then, when I save up enough, I will be using Audax 4" Aerogel midbasses to cover from 200Hz down to 54 Hz. There will be a bass box below each speaker with 4 of these woofers. But each box is going to be, like, $150 or something, so if anyone has a better idea for a 4" midbass, PLEASE let me know.

    So that's 9 drivers in each speaker. The drivers will be wired in series-parallel to still present an 8-ohm load.
     
  8. rich r

    rich r Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    im not sure about the aero-gel for the low end.. I personally dont think the areo is not going to go any lower than the Tb will.

    I would suggest something like a TB W8 or a av8 maybe. It all depends on how LOW and how much output you want.

    IMO -=-i would eliminate the areogel in your design and build a tempest take care of the low end. Im sure the TB W4 will go down the 50Hz within -3Db.
     
  9. BrendanL

    BrendanL Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can I ask why so many drivers?
    If you use multiple full range drivers you negate the best purpose of them, which is using them as a single point source. They don't of course handle that many watts, but too many drivers is not the way to get there either.

    There are several bookshelf designs out there that sound great. GR-Research has some great kits, and the Adire 281 kit is also a great choice.
     
  10. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, my idea for this system was sort of like the idea for my first subwoofer: Two 8's in isobaric push-pull in an EBS enclosure. Of course, it had huge trouble with bottoming out of the woofers at moderate output levels, and I was doing the math by hand (with loads of mistakes).

    But this time, I think I've selected the right hodgepodge of ideas:

    My beef with the 3" and/or a single fullrange driver is that it won't handle enough power. I have a reciever that puts out 60w RMS/channel. I love to listen to music, but I'm by no means a golden-ear. Some day I have to get down to Escient Systems in Carmel and hear some B&W 602's, but until that happens, I'm stuck in my blissful ignorance.

    I've decided on Madisound Sledgehammer 5.25" woofers for the LF enclosure which I will build later.

    I wanted to use fullrange drivers to take the crossover point out of the midrange. Way WAY out of the midrange. The crossover point for me is at 13,000 Hz. so this is what I intend to accomplish: using the fullrange drivers as really-wide-range midbasses.

    The bottom line for me is to build some speakers that I'll have for years. Everything has butyl rubber surrounds. Thsi will take the utmost of MDF craftsmanship and be finished in white piano gloss.
     
  11. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes the stock is in.All but the 8" sub (W8-740) this will be in by July 25th.

    The W4-657S or the W3-871S (W3-593S) meet your needs.
    More highs out of the 3" than the 4"


    Al
    Nuera Acoustic
     
  12. Cam S

    Cam S Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Allan, I live in Kelowna, how much would the shipping be for a couple of the 4" FR drivers?? Also, will you guys have any box designs and XO designs up on the website soon?

    BTW, I noticed on the Neura Acoustic banner a really nice looking cast frame subwoofer, what size is it and will you guys be carrying woofer's larger than 8"??
     
  13. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was just saying that our W4-657S is in stock and will hanle the power you are looking at.


    Al
    Nuera Acoustic
     
  14. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 1998
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rory, I found this in my MCM flyer: 55-1853 4" shielded aluminum cone; frequency response 60 - 17 kHz 1" dia copper voice coil; Xmax 2.55 mm. $10.75 Anyway, it looks good on WinsISD: 250.5 in^3 cabinet with a 1.5" dia port 6.8" long and an F3 of just over 64 Hz. Not a round frame driver though :-(

    If you want to go lower, I really like their 55-1855 5" 45 -15 kHz. I believe these are Tangband drivers.
     
  15. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    The MCM 1855 are not TB drivers.
    I know this as a fact.


    Al
     
  16. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was interested by the midbasses with the double surrounds. Philips makes stereos with wOOx, which is a passive radiator with double surrounds and it has an excursion of about .75" in either direction.

    I'm using multiple drivers to get that sort of effect that you have with the guy on the labels for Maxell tapes, being blown away by the sound. also, they look cool. Sort of a psychoacoustic thing. I want these things to be able to crank when I'm in the mood for loud.

    Also, I might add that I'm using a very nice Blueprint 10" subwoofer, so the cabinets with the 5" woofers will be driven by the L/R channels in the reciever to get good bass from the mains so I can run the sub only for the lowest sub-basement. Then, when I have a house and everything, I will probably build some nicer speakers and use these out in the garage or in my computer room or whatever. But during college, I probably won't get to take my subwoofer there (space limitations and all that), so I'll drive the 5's with the 120-watt sub amplifier. I don't intend for it to go that low, because then the neighbors will complain.
     
  17. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 1998
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Allan, ok the 1855's are not made by Tangband. Sorry for the wrong guess. That's fine, they still look good. So, I assume the 1853's are Tangband.
     
  18. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    No , the 55-1853 is not a TB.
    MCM has only the TB W3-532 left in stock and will not have anymore TB drivers in stock for a LONG TIME IF EVER.
    The stopped a order with TB so what they have is all that they will have for a LONG TIME.
    IF EVER AGAIN.

    Al
    I have cases of the 55-1855 sitting here.
    Was going to build the line but I am to busy with Nuera now to play .
     
  19. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 1998
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, excuuuuse meee [​IMG] BTW, I know for a fact why MCM may never carry TB again, Allan. What is your pricing on the new TB 10" in various quantities?
     
  20. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    We do not carry the 10" sub only the 8" W8-740.
    The other subs we were not happy with for one reason or another.
    The 8" was a hands down winner of the lot.
    We may carry some more of the subs after some changes are done to them.
    Till then it is just the 8"

    AL
     

Share This Page