USAToday reviews the 2004 WRX STi (1 Viewer)

[Todd Hochard]

Power isn't terribly relevant at the Autocross level. The Miatas own our courses here (they did, haven't been for about a year). It was always funny to watch anyone push a larger car with a torquey motor around the tiny course. I slid my '80 around once- yeehah.

Of course, at Sebring, it's a different story.

 

[Philip_G]

so is a rally.

 

[Todd Hochard]

so is a rally

I live in FL. What is this "rally" you are referring to, and what exactly are "unpaved" roads?

 

[Philip_G]

I'm moving to colorado in 4 days, whats pavement?

 

[Charles J P]

Where did the 0-60 and quarter mile figures come from. I am 90% sure that one of the car mags pulled a 5.2 0-60 in the 03 WRX (non-sti) but I could be wrong.

 

[CharlesD]

Car and Driver has the STi at 4.6, Road & Track has it at 4.8 sec 0-60.

The regular WRX was tested in the low 5 secs (I recall 5.2 - 5.4 secs but am not sure) Those sort of times were achieved with high rpm launches accompanied but lots of burning clutch & tire smoke! I would guess that USA Today's 5.1 for the STi was a more normal driving style and the 4.6-4.8 times were through more agressive driving.

Many magazines also quote 5-60mph times because they are more indicative of "real world" accelration for most cars than the rev it up & dump the clutch methods used for getting lower 0-60 times.

 

[Philip_G]

Many magazines also quote 5-60mph times because they are more indicative of "real world" accelration for most cars than the rev it up & dump the clutch methods used for getting lower 0-60 times.

you mean you guys don't dump the clutch at 4k at almost every stoplight? :b
Ok, not every, but when I wanna gooooo you kind of have to slip it in there at 4k to get a solid launch.. Have to slip the hell out of the car to keep it smooth anyway, what's a few extra RPMs

 

[Masood Ali]

You don't dump the clutch on a AWD car from 0MPH; that's not indicative of real-world driving because you're toasting the clutch in the process.

The EVO is a truly amazing car for the price. The 4G63 is a proven performer, with headroom from the factory. The 270HP from the EVO is mainly a product of the gentlemen's agreement between Japanese auto manufacturers to limit the power of their cars, even though many of their engines are capable of much more.

The 2.5L in the STi is something Subaru put out only for the North American market. We'll see it's potential when STi's get some exposure in the States.

But my ideology is that it's easier to make a great-handling car faster than it is to make a faster car have better handling; thus my reason for picking the EVO over the STi.

 

[Philip_G]

You don't dump the clutch on a AWD car from 0MPH; that's not indicative of real-world driving because you're toasting the clutch in the process.

Yeah, actually you kinda do. If I need to be out in a hurry I rev it to 4k-ish engage the clutch and hammer it while feathering out the clutch to maintain that RPM until it's out. Clutches are cheap, transmissions are not. I really could care less if I burn a clutch. This is pretty common practice on the WRX forums. Most people around the subaru boards are getting 20k out of their clutches. I'm at 26k and she needs to go. If you dump an AWD too quickly she'll shudder like a crack fiend in withdrawls. Burning the clutch is just the way it is.. especially with the 5MT subaru chose for the WRX. I really can't say I've ever smelled any burning off it either. Maybe before it goes in for a new one I'll toast it up nicely

 

[Todd Hochard]

20k on a clutch. Aye Carumba! I couldn't stomach the maintenance.
Off the line traction is a big problem for me in my '80, as I've tuned the suspension to handle. No clutch slipping here- anything above 2000rpm, and I'm roasting the tires. In fact, anything over 3/4 throttle in 1st, and I'm roasting the tires. I need some drag radials.

 

[Bill Griffith]

Wow,

Proper way to launch AWD car on dry pavement. Rev to 5k , ease off clutch quickly (Don't just side step it, letting it pop out).

Philip your not dumping your clutch.

And dumping the clutch doesn't toast your clutch as much as it does the teeth on the gears and the drive shaft. You toast your clutch by letting off your clutch to slowly while mashing on the accelerator.

I've driven my car for over 2 years and it has about 24k and I have ablsolutly no problems with my Transmission. And I drive my car harder than most people.

If you take the basic numbers for both cars (STI has 30 More Horse Power, Evo weighs less than STI by less than 100 lbs), the STI should be slightly faster than the EVO. I've heard the Suspension on the EVO is amazing and the tires they come with stock are better than the STI's, however I don't know how people know this since none of us have Driven an STI yet. When the Car comes out and someone reputable (this does not include Motor Trend, Car and Driver, or any other mass distributed mag) tests both cars under identicle conditions than I'll be happy to except those figures. But untill than, all these "test results" are crap. I mean reading the Mag it looks like MotorTrend took the results from there test they ran with the EVO with all the other cars (The ferraris, corvettes and such) and then tested the STI somewhere else on a different day and maybe even with a different driver. This does not make a good test as every factor that has to remain constant for an accurate test has changed.

1 Thing I do like is the Reverse scoop on the Hood of the EVO, with the FMIC. I really wish the STI would have come with at the very least a FMIC, but deffinatly wish they got rid of that horribly high profile Scoop.

 

[Shawn C]

My local Mitsu dealer has about 4-5 of the new EVO's on their lot. I looked at one of them. The car doesn't have that $30K feel on the outside. From the side, it still pretty much looks like any Lancer. It just doesn't look like a $30K car.

I hate the wing, but I think it's actually an option?

I noticed the Pontiac dealer down the street STILL has at least 1 leftover Trans Am

 

[Scott Wong]

I noticed the Pontiac dealer down the street STILL has at least 1 leftover Trans Am

Shawn!! Nooooooooo!! No Shawn!!

 

[Shane Martin]

And 10k miles later you will be wondering why you bought the broken down Trans Am

I expected the new STI to impress me but it doesn't as much as I expected. Right now if I had my choice, i'd buy an EVO. Both are going to be solid cars with a solid reputation.

Then again I'd avoid both of them and buy a new Lightning and smoke them both

 

[Charles J P]

And 10k miles later you will be wondering why you bought the broken down Ford

 

[Philip_G]

1 Thing I do like is the Reverse scoop on the Hood of the EVO, with the FMIC. I really wish the STI would have come with at the very least a FMIC, but deffinatly wish they got rid of that horribly high profile Scoop.

nah, I like the TMIC. Shorter intake tract, and FMIC's are easy to damage in the snow
If I get in enough snow to damage the TMIC I'm mega mega screwed. Besides, with a flat four there's room for the TMIC. Just put a decent transmission in the car for god's sake

 

[Jared_B]

I just fully read the C&D write-up comparing the two cars, and I have a few issues.

First, they quoted the top-gear roll ons from 30-50 and 50-70. They bitched about the Evo's turbo lag, and how a similarly powerful 350Z did the 30-50 test about 2 seconds faster. My problem is this - in a turbo charged car, you NEVER do a top gear roll-on from 30-50. With a car like the Evo, or a WRX, or even the STi to some extent, you have to drive differently to make it perform.

Like Philip said about the launches, we use a lot of clutch slip in our daily driving to get a fast launch. Hell, I do it on every on-ramp (15k miles so far, and I fully expect 30-40k on the stock clutch). Rev to 3 or 4k, feather clutch quickly (not side-stepping), and floor it. The WRX clutch is actually quite strong, and designed for the abuse. The tranny however, is not that strong (first gear, anyway). Side-stepping, or "dumping" the clutch will eventually shred the teeth right off it. I'm happy to see the STi getting a good tranny.

Many magazines also quote 5-60mph times because they are more indicative of "real world" accelration for most cars than the rev it up & dump the clutch methods used for getting lower 0-60 times.

The EVO is a truly amazing car for the price. The 4G63 is a proven performer, with headroom from the factory. The 270HP from the EVO is mainly a product of the gentlemen's agreement between Japanese auto manufacturers to limit the power of their cars, even though many of their engines are capable of much more.

That "gentlemen's agreement" is only valid for Japanese domistic cars. It's commonly thought that Japanese Evos are making in excess of 300hp. The Euro Evo makes less power (more like a real 276), and our US version makes less still.

Even though I'm a Subaru fan by default, I'm still having a hard time deciding which one I'd buy. Is it really easier to get more power from the Evo, or would a simple set of coilovers make the STi better in the twisties?

 

[Bill Griffith]

First, they quoted the top-gear roll ons from 30-50 and 50-70. They bitched about the Evo's turbo lag

Ha thats funny, everything I've heard about the EVO says that the turbo lag is almost nonexistant, especially when compared to the WRX. The EVO is running a "dual staged turbo" or whatever they call it. This means the pressure will be built up super quick and sustained over the length of the RPM Range. What we've noticed test driving one though is that yes, it does pull very nicely at Low RPM, about 2k, and seems to not be worth leaving it in gear after 5k. The WRX has to be around 3200 rpm minimum before you even feel the turbo kick in, than it pulls pretty hard through 6500 rpm.

I've never heard any problems with damaging FMIC, and lots of people have them here in Houston. But unfortunatly we don't have snow. The air flow path is much smoother with a FMIC and reverse Hood scoop, and you don't suffer from the added drag that silly hood scoop on the WRX and worse yet STI gives you. STI Hood scoop is about 1 inch taller than the one on the WRX (And they both seem to have the same body styling otherwise).

IMO you lose much more due to drag with a TMIC than you loose on an extra Foot or 2 of Intake Plumbing.

 

[Philip_G]

on the subaru board I remember reading it's somewhat common to lose 1-2 PSI when going from a TMIC to an FMIC. As far as the drag goes, who knows. From a 0-60 it's probably negligable, and I don't really take the rex up on high speed runs. It's noisy enough at 80. Here's a decent thread covering the subject, I didn't have the patience to search for a better one. Oh, with an FMIC on the WRX you lose the fog lights too.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=FMIC+loss


to bad you don't have snow, nothing like breaking all four wheels free at the same time with a tiny blip

 

[Jared_B]

In C&D, they said the Evo doesn't really start to pull until 3k, while the STi has lots of power down at 2k. My WRX (stock) didn't reach full boost until about 3200, but with a simple boost controller, now it does it at 3000. With the WRX, simple bolt-ons can make a huge difference is how quickly the turbo spools. It'll be interesting to see how the Evo takes to similar mods, with it's much higher pressure turbo. The STi runs the same amount of boost as the WRX, just with a bigger engine, and variable valve timing. I'm thinking it will have the same amount of potential that the WRX has (a simple bolt-on kit will give the WRX 370HP).

IMO you lose much more due to drag with a TMIC than you loose on an extra Foot or 2 of Intake Plumbing.

You're also forgetting that these cars have high-downforce, high-drag aerodynamics - it's doubtfull that anyone really cares about the negligable amount of drag the scoop provides.