US Grand Prix (1 Viewer)

[Seth Paxton]

Definately good luck on that. Sure would be cool.
Also, let me add that there are 2 great local steakhouses for anyone coming in that is looking to spend money.
St. Elmo's is a classic Indy joint, they place to go. Keep your liquor down to 1 glass and you can get out for maybe $50 per. Illinois St right next to the downtown mall, not far from Maryland St.
But lesser known, equally good, is Dunaway's just a few blocks away. Corner of South and East St (that 1/2 mile south and east of the circle). The diagonal street Virginia also runs into this corner. You will spend a similar amount.
Dunaway's was started by a cook that left St Elmo's as I understand it. Both have great steaks and great Shrimp Cocktail. Elmo's will be packed tight and loud. Dunaway's should be a bit more relaxed. But you are more likely to see someone famouse at Elmo's. Should be easier to get into Dunaway's though since it's more off the beaten path and has less name recognition.
Also, in years past St Elmo's was selling the shrimp cocktail out in front of the restaurant for something like $8 to $10 for a cup to carry around, if you are in the area anyway.
If you don't like either of those options, there's always the Shula's, Ruth's Chris, and Morton's downtown...also a Buca de Beppo, not to mention good old White Castle which has a strip club (Red Garter) just a few feet south of it right off of South St and Illinois.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I'm skipping this year; I do like to see more competition than there has been lately.

This phenomena is not unique to the US; ticket sales for F1 are down in most of Europe, and media over there have attributed it to Schumacher's dominance.

Both previous years it has been easy to get cheap seats outside, this year will be no different. Last year I got $85 seats at the finish line for $15.

Even the primo seats around J, NW Vista, etc can be had for below face if you are willing to be patient and walk around a lot.

The Sarah Fisher publicity drive is a joke. If any current young, female driver makes it to F1, it won't be her. Maybe Danica Patrick.

 

[MikeAlletto]

Man I'm sure enjoying the 30 minute pre-race...errr...I mean the 30 minute redbull commercial. Awful, just awful. I don't care who their "contestants" are. After they choose a US team those that didn't make it won't matter at all, so why bother to show them? No one cares. I hate ABC's coverage...yuck.

 

[Peter Kim]

WTF??!!
I'm going to have to reconsider the sham that is WWE and whether it has any parallel in racing.
Well, the season is over now (1st, 2nd, and Constructor's officially wrapped up), so I guess everything is really for show now.
But I'm sure the bookies and bettors are seething over the .01 second differential. Plus does nothing to earn an audience from potential American open-wheel fans.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Too much spectacle, not enough sport. A lovely parade on a Mickey Mouse F1 track. You'd have thought they'd put in honest finishes for the rest of the season after what happened earlier this year.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

F1 is all about teams not individuals....that's what Americans just can't seem to understand. Ferrari got 1 and 2. Who was 1 and who was 2 is irrelevant. Personally, I loved the finish! It added excitement to what would have otherwise been a dull finish.

Jeff

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Jeff,
ITV is British media, and they don't understand. I guess it's not just us poor dumb americans. :rolleyes
http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/12920

The US Grand Prix ended in farce after Michael Schumacher appeared to hand victory to team-mate Rubens Barrichello on the line after the German had dominated the race.
...
With Formula 1 coming under pressure for processional races and Ferrari’s unchallenged dominance, the stage-managed finish left a bad taste in the mouth.
...
The meddling of the two Ferrari drivers was the worse thing that could have happened to F1 right now. At a time when grand prix racing is struggling to establish itself in America and in the context of falling TV viewing figures, Schumacher exhibited an appalling lapse in judgement. America already has WWF.

The falling TV figures they are talking about aren't the US ratings, BTW.

 

[MikeAlletto]

I don't think this finish was anywhere near as bad as the team orders from early this season. The race is over. The 2 Ferrari's dominated the entire race. Who really cares who came in first and who came in second? Earlier this season the fans and press had a legitimate complaint, but now it just sounds like Ferrari bashing because people are tired of them winning.

 

[Peter Kim]

Uh, Mike...Ferrari is my favorite team. And, if done legitimately, a Ferrari would have still won.
I'd like to see a team I've seen rise from the ashes to win its races, and win them convincingly and in sportsmanlike fashion.

 

[Seth Paxton]

You should have heard the boos after that finish. We were seated right across from the winner's stand and the Montoya fans especially (but others too) were booing the hell out of that lame finish.

Here's why it sucks...IF they had just played straight up in both cases then they would have still had the same points in the end.

PLUS, would it have killed them to let RB take the lead on the 2nd pits. They both had 40 seconds on Coultard at that point, and had 15 seconds AFTER the pits. They only had some 20 laps left after that and could easily have swapped positions just by keeping MS in the pitstop a bit too long.

I think the biggest problem with these 2 endings is how it is done so obviously on the last lap. Just too in your face about it.

As "boring" as it all was I still don't understand the "no passing" complaints from US fans at this track. Gee, I'd say every 3 laps someone was making a move on the front straight going into turn 1. That made for fun racing.

I was PISSED when Lil Schuey had to tag his own teammate on LAP 2!!!! Cripes, I'm all for each driver trying to win, but teamwork says that you play a little softer with your teammate, especially on a very early pass. That took crowd fav JPM out right away.

On the positive side...incredible weather. Perfect weather, best for any Indy race in the last 3-4 years.

While they said foreign attendence was down, I found that hard to believe because foreigners were everywhere at the race, as well as around the city.

 

[Daryl Furkalo]

On the ITV coverage which we get in Canada, it was mentioned at the start of the race that if Ferrari got another 1-2, the Ferrari team would have more points than everyone else COMBINED! Williams and MacLaren had better get their act together over the winter.

 

[CharlesD]

Another great race. I had a great time again. As to the finish I loved it, it happened right in front of me and I thought RB crossed first but wasn't sure. It was not, however, contrived or due to team orders. Shumacher slowed up for a photo finish and Reubens crossed the line first. It was a Ferrari 1-2 and thats all the team cared about at this point. It was the only mistake Schumacher made all weekend (other than overshooting his grid position and having to back the car up after the parade lap).

Yeah some know-nothings were booing arund me too. F-1 is the real deal folks. It is not contrived to make for more entertaining TV, there are no mandated wing angles or mid-season rules changes to keep the cars/drivers going the same speed. This is the result of incredible effort by hundreds of very smart people to the best/fastest. Ferrari was not handed their dominance, they did not buy it, they earned it over many years of effort. I'd rather see the race F-1 put on than any contrived yellow flag-filled articfcial "side by side" oval race that series like NASCAR or the IRL put on.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Ferrari’s Indy antics could have a disastrous effect on the future of F1, Eddie Jordan has warned.

The Jordan team boss was far from impressed with Michael Schumacher’s botched attempt to engineer a dead-heat at the end of the US Grand Prix. It is the second time this season that a race has ended in controversy after the Ferraris swapped positions inside the last 100 yards.

Jordan reckons Schumacher’s actions will prompt sports fans to turn their back on F1, making it even more difficult for teams to secure the sponsorship they need to go racing.

He told Reuters: "After Austria, this isn't very clever is it?

"It is a very, very financially hostile market at the moment and there were other sports on TV today, one where golf made a huge impact on everyone throughout the globe by hard fighting.

"People want to see real competition fought to the last ounce. That is what happened in golf, I understand it happened in the superbike race, and people are not going to turn on a Formula One race when they know the end is going to be decided other than by true racing.

"If Ferrari have that advantage like they had, people at least deserve to see a race."

 

[CharlesD]

People have short memories. McLaren won 15 of 16 races in 1988 with 11 1-2s, they did not ruin the sport. The other teams needed to get faster, which eventually they did.

I saw a race yesterday. MS only slowed up in the last two laps to let his team-mate catch himup for a photo-op finish, and did too good a job of it. Its happened before (le Mans) It was a well deserved Ferrari 1-2, and personally I found the finish to be quite entertaining. Thisis motor-sports history being made, this sort of domination does not happen very often.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Jordan is right about one thing that is not debatable...attendence was down at most of the events.

There must be SOME reason for that.

There is no reason to take a cheap shot at the IRL here. They race straight up and I don't understand what is contrived by that. I watch most of the races and I've yet to see anything phoney or manipulated. And to be honest I find it funny when the F1 drivers act like that 1/3 lap run of full on throttle is "crazy" while Indy drivers keep the cars at 210+ at all times on the same track. RB's crash is barely a sampler of the risk an Indy driver runs. You don't have to like ovals, that's fine, but its still a demanding job for the drivers.

Also, I'd say if you like to defend sports where the biggest payroll wins then come join me in the MLB threads where I have to defend the Yanks all the time.

The difference between MLB and F1 though...teams in the lower 1/3 of spending finished first in their divisions and won as much as the heavily spending teams.

I love F1, I thought the race was decent though never the least bit competitive (Schuey could have lapped the 6th position, that's something to think about), but it's hard to say that it couldn't use at least a little competition from 1 or 2 other teams.

I would quickly get bored with the Yanks winning their division 100 games into the season, let alone the WS. But that's just what Ferrari did this year.

I realize that this success is fairly recent for Ferrari and that not so long ago it was another team dominating. But racing needs competition to keep it exciting, just like any other sport.

 

[CharlesD]

You guys are of course right Ferrari's domination is not good for F-1 and it is undoubtedly turning some people off. But it is the way it tends to work in F1, and F1 has done nothing but grown in the last 20 years or so. Whether this will ever be sold to large numbers of fans in the US is a different issue.

The Austria thing was a colossal blunder by Ferrari who seem to be PR tone deaf and the first thing everybody's head yesterday was that incident.

Schumacher said he had asked before the race whether he could let Reubens win if in a position to do so, and the team said "no". He wasn't trying to give Reubens a win but was showing off for the press and for the fans.

In retrospect it was not the smartest thing to do, but I think this thing is overblown. They have had a historically successful season, they have been running 1-2 all day Reubens was running at the same pace as MS and varied between 0.25 & 3 or 4 sec behind all day, they are in front of the biggest crowd of the year with thousands of Ferrari fans there and 10s of millions watching around the world on TV, so why not put on a show at the final lap?

People loved it when Panizzi did a donut during a rally that he was leading to entertain some fans, every 24 hours of Le Mans ends with a formation photo-op lap for the winners, so why can't Ferrari celebrate their biggest season ever?

Yeah Ferrari spend huge money, but so does Honda, and all they have to show for it is the loudest engine in F-1. BAR spends huge cash to feel lucky to score a point. Toyota has a Ferrari sized budget and runs at the back (for now).
Ford & DaimlerChrysler spend mega bucks as does BMW. This is not like MLB where you just buy the best players, F1 is an engineering competition as much as it is a driving contest.

Things will change, if BMW gets their engines reliable, look out for Williams. Williams know that they need to do more and are building a second wind tunnel. Toyota has had a promising start and are committed, they may or may not make it the top. Honda is not having any luck but has dominated in the past, and may do so again. Ditto Renault.
It just doesn't happen from week to week.



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OT re: IRL its not the ovals so much as the mandated minimum wing angles. Now why would they do that? because they have been open right from the start that they will fashion the rules to prevent anyone from having an advantage. They put so much drag on the cars that at most tracks they are at full throttle for the entire lap, they are not going through the corners on the limits of the car. It does produce an exciting spectacle for the fans with the cars running together at high speed, but it is not a huge test of skill compared to balancing the car through every corner every lap whether its on an oval or on a road course.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I had a great time at the track over the weekend. Seeing Formula One in person was a dream come true! I will certainly be going as long as it is around. One thing I disagree with Seth on though was the noise. Those cars were freaking LOUD! Much louder than the IRL cars, although I have never been to a NASCAR event (and probably never will) so I can't compare it to that. I really wish I would've brought ear plugs.
I thought the city could've done a better job promoting it though. The leading all-sports radio station WNDE never mentioned it the whole week prior. I listen to that station morning, noon and night and never heard anything about it. What a shame. I suppose it had something to do with the broadcast rights going to a competitor but this was a huge event for an all-sports station to ignore. The sad thing is that people here don't really see it as a huge event. They see it as an also-ran.
I worry about the future of the race here, even though an article in this morning's paper said it was likely to stay.
As for the local's take on the race, here are some letters from today's Indianapolis Star:
"Thanks, Michael Schumacher, for a huge slap in the face! We don't need your rigged racing, so take your fake team home. So, Rubens Barrichello, how does it feel to have a race given to you?"
"To Michael Schumacher: You should be ashamed for everything that you and your team stand for!"
"To my friends who went with me to the Formula One race: I'm sorry that I hyped the event up so much. I really thought we were going to watch a race, not a farce."
"Gentleman's sport? This is racing!"
I listened to some of the post-race coverage and it was filled with people whining about how much F1 sucks and how we need to send all these Europeans and their lousy racing back to Europe. I felt embarrassed at times to be from here by the comments being made by people.
I seriously doubt whether people in this town will ever accept anything other than what they've been accustomed to for 90+ years. It's sad. It's odd that the people of this city have zero appreciation for an event that is probably bigger than the Indy 500 in terms of worldwide television ratings. No offense to IRL fans, but the Indy 500 is not a big deal outside of a 200-mile radius from Indy and certainly no longer a big deal on the world scale. These people who complain about Ferrari domination are the same people who will continue watching the Pacers even though everyone knows the Lakers are going to win. Actually, Phil Jackson's domination of the NBA has been about 9 of the last 11 years, no? Ferrari has been dominating F-1 for 3? How could we seriously call ourselves "The motor racing capitol of the world" if we didn't have the world's most popular and prestigous racing, Formula One? Granted, our track isn't the one of the better ones on the F-1 circuit, but it's still fun to watch and an honor to have it in our city.
Hats off to the Europeans and other race fans from around the world who made my weekend so enjoyable! I've never seen such a classy, well-behaved group of fans at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The amount of support they displayed for their teams was incredible. It was truly a pleasure to go the track and not be surrounded by the drunken fools that were surrounding me the last time I went to the Indy 500 (in fairness to the 500, I have heard that they've gotten rid of a lot of the things that used to go on there). I haven't attended an actual race there since 1992 (back when they were still setting cars on fire in turn 4 and guys were walking around with signs saying "Free mustache rides").
I also wish to thank Tony George for being supportive of F-1 here. I'm not a big fan of him but I do like that he has brought this race here and has said nothing but great things about Formula One. He even said he had no complaints about the finish (read here). Funny how all the Tony George disciples stick by everything he says except for his praise of F-1?
On a side note, it seems like they have gotten the traffic situation worked out fairly well down there. I was in and out of there very, very easily.
I will continue to hope that with the possibilty of Gurney bringing in an American team, and with Castroneves inevitably headed to F-1 within the next 2 years that maybe we'll attract enough interest to make this race something the people here will support.
Jeff

 

[CharlesD]

...that is probably bigger than the Indy 500 in terms of worldwide television ratings.

Probably? How bout it has 10 times the global audience if not more. The Indy 500 is not even shown in most countries that have all F-1 race on live. Where it is shown it is often tape delayed highlights. As you pointed out there is not a great deal of interest in that race outside of a few hours driving from Indianapolis.

Personally I'd much rather see the USGP at Elkahrt Lake or even back at Long Beach. But Tony George is the one who spent the 10s of millions to provide F1 level facilities which are not present at the otehr places. I've enjoyed the event all 3 years and will keep going back so long as it is held.

After the last two experiences, though, I did completely ignore the local media this time, they have no understanding of F1 or of what a major global sporting event it is.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

As you pointed out there is not a great deal of interest in that race outside of a few hours driving from Indianapolis.

There used to be. For this thread, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I've always said that more than the split, the bigger reason people care less about the Indy 500 than they used to is the lack of record breaking. Let's be honest, for racing with laps (not drag) Indy is the fastest race, but it used to be the fastest by a bigger margin. People came in for quallies because those weren't just positions for the race, they were men going faster than ever before, almost every year (ignoring occasional rules changes that would set it back for awhile).
I still respect the hell out of wheel to wheel 250mph and think anyone that doesn't either has a lot more guts than me or no comprehension of the risks at hand. But the spectacle of increasing speed has been removed, thus qually attendence dropped like a rock. (a spot of 75 F sunshine at some point wouldn't hurt either )
You certainly can't complain about the racing since putting drivers in similar cars at high speed would seem to me to be the very best way to determine the finest driver.
On to F1 in America, we have 2 more years left, then I wonder what will happen. Considering the marketplace I can see Bernie wanting to remain, especially since its at the end of the schedule anyway (and therefore normally unimportant to the series). It acts more like a demostration event for F1 in a large market. And 120, 140K is still 140K in attendence. Not too shabby even if its far below what they would like to draw here.
I also suspect that Tony George will remain 100% behind it and can afford to. The Brickyard is making sick amounts of money, and the 500 is not exactly dead come race day. So Tony can afford to "only" draw 100K for F1 events until/if it takes off.
So I hope that means that after this contract it will get extended. It's a fun event and a nice contrast to the other 2 races. I love having all the visitors from out of country in our city. I've met people from all over, this year a couple from Belgium sat next to us, and we ran into another couple from Australia at dinner the night before. Not to mention all the conversations your overhear around town and at the track.
Jeff, my ears weren't ringing after the F1 like they were all night after the 500. That's my best guage for it. I will say that where you sit can affect it though because I found the cars louder under the front paddock on race day than in the open spaces during quallies.
Comparing crowds, and I have been to the last 3 500's (along with many before that, around 20 now), several 400s including 2000 and 2001, and all 3 USGPs.
F1 crowd is the most "fun". Horns and flags and face paint, without being a drunken ass. I'm sure there were plenty of rowdy drunks, but mostly the loud fans are just that way without having to be drunk. They are generally respectful, though the finish this year brough loud boos, and that wasn't just locals doing it (unless Hoosiers started speaking a variety of foreign languages). But obviously this was a special circumstance.
Indy 500 - not the old "get drunk on Georgetown, start a fight, see some tits" crowd. However, there is still a lot of drunks, just not as many troublemakers. Mostly its American racing fans who like a variety of racing (including F1). Its still a much more impressive event, if for no other reason than the hour plus pomp and circumstance preceeding the race (and the action is still great - several pits for example and many 3 wide into the turn type moments).
500 crowds don't boo, period. This is a cheering crowd that wants to see racing action.
Brickyard - WWF racing. The crowd boos the guys they hate as they are introduced during the parade! Yeah, that's tasteful. Lots of drinking, lots of rednecks, generally annoying crowd. They do know their NASCAR and BUSCH series, but seem to disregard the rest as boring. The cars run in single file for much of the race, topping in the 180 range which feels like numerous pace laps after seeing the 500 to be honest. And with 50+ cars on the track there is just a mess of cars crowding the track at all times with no break in the noise as cars space out.
If you have never been to an F1 event, it's a must-see. Just try to get a Sunday night flight out, or be ready for an hour long line on Monday morning. I did airport runs all weekend for the family and Monday at 7 am was horrible, the worst moment by far.
About the finish, I also thought Schuey was slowing to get a photo finish with RB, which I thought was a cool idea. But then when RB came ahead I figured it was intentional payback. It didn't bother me a lot in this case since RB earned the win months ago, though the sloppiness with which it was done (again) made it look cheap as hell.
If RB or MS just messed up the photo op by letting RB go ahead, then okay no problem. If it was payback I just think it just shows how stupid the Austrian situation was in the first place, as had they left well enough alone it would have been just the same without the bad press.