URGENT: Paradigm 15% discount tomorrow only. (1 Viewer)

[Andy Young]

This is not an advertisement! I am asking for purchasing advice. It suddenly became clear to me that my thread title might appear to be offering a deal (sales) to prospective buyers. There is no way for me to edit the thread title, though. Sorry.
This is a follow-up message to this thread: Paradigm vs B&W for HT.
Local shop has Performance bookshelf speakers: Micro, Atom, Titan.
Also has Monitor bookshelfs: MiniMonitor, Monitor 5
Also has Monitor floorstanding: Monitor 7 and Monitor 11
No Performance floorstanding, no CC-270 center speaker (only 170 & 370), and no PDR-12 (only 10).
I auditioned the following systems (using my material: Toy Story 2 and The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly (great for demoing center channels -- the whole movie is dolby digital mono):

1. Titan mains, Atom surrounds, CC-170 center, PSB-10 sub.
2. Monitor 7 mains, Atom surrounds, CC-170 center, PSB-10 sub.

I must have floorstanding main speakers. NO BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS. This is purely due to aesthetics -- nothing really to do with performance.
I also don't want to pay for Monitor series speakers. I'm just not that discriminating of a listener. Couldn't hear any significant difference between Titan and Micro Monitor, e.g.
QUESTIONS

1. Would it be prudent to buy the Phantom floorstanding speaker as my main without auditioning? Keep in mind that I've listened to its little brother the Titan (which I liked) and its cousin the Monitor 7 (which I like more than the Titan, but not $420 more). Am I safe, at this point, ordering the Phantom without listening to that exact speaker?
2. The Monitor 7 is $150 more than Phantom. Should I go with the Monitor 7, mated with CC-270 (not timbre matched), and Atoms? I'm already over budget, so I'd prefer not to spend the extra $150.
3. I have not listened to the CC-270, only the CC-170. The 170 was OK, but didn't wow me at all. For an extra $60, I can move up to the 270. Is it worth it? The 370 is yet another $80 ($300) and out of my price range. Thoughts on my center channel choice?
4. The PDR-10 sounded great to me. Very low and hard. Remember, I don't have much experience with subs, so don't laugh at me. ;-) My room is a bit bigger and open, so I figured it was worth the $60 to move to the PDR-12. Thoughts?

Tomorrow only is 15% off all Paradigm speakers. Even special order -- so I can order the Phantom (a speaker they don't carry) and any other speaker in any color/finish I want with that discount: Phantom, Atom, CC-270, and PSB-12 for $1,200 (my budget was $1,000).
Thanks for all of your help so far. I've always been impressed with the level of support here, whether the person is asking about a $500 home-theater-in-a-box or about $20,000 Nautilus speakers.
I look forward to reading your suggestions.
Andy

 

[Ken Custodio]

Is this 15% off in addition to the normal everyday discounting you get from a local audio store, or is it just 15% off the MSRP price from Paradigm?

 

[Andy Young]

15% off list MSRP. For example, the Phantoms list for $529; tomorrow's price will be $450.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "everyday discounting." My local shop (B&W and Paradigm) sells at straight list prices. Haven't ever negotiated to find out what it actually sells at. I seriously doubt that 15% off MSRP is an everyday discount for them, though. Also, anything not in stock (color/finish and models it doesn't typically stock) is considered a "special order" and is generally not discounted.

Andy

 

[Nick Cerretti]

Since your concerned with timbre matching, you will have to match the Phantoms with the cc270, which is what Paradigm recommends anyway. The 170 could work, but I imagine the 270 would make a slight difference. I've never heard it in action unfortunately. The atoms are good surrounds but unless the size issue is important, the Titan is a much better speaker for only 20 bucks more.

I'd forget about anything in the monitor line because to keep everything tumbre matched, It will go way above your budget (although the Monitor 7 is a superior speaker to the Phantom IMO).

 

[Brae]

Andy, 15% should not be a big deal as a norm. Although I have not been able to reach the discounting depths of some others, I have gotten 13% my everyday buy on my Paradigm Studio Reference speakers.

 

[Mickey Brown]

How much would Minimonitors all around and cc370 be?

I think you would be surprised with this setup when you add a sub.

 

[Andy Young]

Brae,

Sounds like you have a good relationship with your dealer.

I'm in a small market (Medford, OR) and over 2 hours away from anything else (Eugene, OR). Shops have more of a captive audience and aren't under pressure to discount.

I'm pretty sure that I would not be able to swing 13% on any given day. 10%, perhaps, but tomorrow's 15% represents a better-than-normal deal. Also, I'm almost positive that any discount I was able to get would be limited to stock-on-hand items.

These guys are really wound up tight and almost fixated on inventory turnover. They don't stock demo speakers to use as a means to secure orders -- they stock demo speakers with the express goal to move them out the door (sold as new, not used) and replace them with new "demo" speakers (they constantly have rotating holes on their shelves due to whatever they just sold).

Seems like an odd business model. I'd expect them to have one set of demo speakers and hold them until the next generation of speakers came out, at which point they'd sell their demo stock as discounted used speakers. They don't.


Mickey,

Performance-wise, I am sure that's a fine set-up. However, as I stated above, bookshelf speakers as mains are not an option for aesthetic reasons. I don't much care for the cube-on-a-stick look and, even if I didn't, my wife hates it.

Thanks for the help so far.

Andy

 

[Brae]

Andy, there are three Paradigm dealers in my town of 5 million. The general dealer attitude is one of 'we can afford to lose a million customers because there is another million right behind them.' They also are accepting of the consumer 'once bitten, twice shy' backlash because of the number of 1st time customers.

That 13% off was something I negotiated for as a first time buyer. I had not bought realy audio equipment before (only a HTIB from Sears), and nothing from this shop in question. Considering that you are in the great state of Oregon, in the town of Medford, how about taking a three-day road-trip to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada? Its right on Interstate 5.

No, I am not kidding, and in the process of making this road trip, you could also garner honest-to-goodness quotes from Paradigm dealers in Portland, Seattle, and Olympia. Simply tell your dealer that you are thinking of making a road-trip. You can get quotes from Canadian dealers for list Canadian pricing, which if in CAN$ you simply mulitply by 0.64 to determine the US$.

I almost made an 800-mile road-trip to Windsor, Ontario, Canada, which is straight up I-75 and across the water from Detroit (I'm in Atlanta). The savings for the package I was looking at would have been $1200 as I bought the Studio 100's in Rosenut veneer, ADP surrounds and Studio CC center channel. Had I hade that trip I could have spent the same amount of money I did spend locally, but gotten the Servo-15 subwoofer, too!

All you need is your passport, a second driver, and a pickup, and also the will to go beyond the typical buyer's call of duty. But, I understand that road trips are not for everyone (my concern was that along I-75 we had raindays for +3 weeks straight and did not have a cap for my pickup, whcih would have cost me $600 minimum).

Fred Degrandis (on AVS forum and HomeTheaterDiscussion forum) had made three road trips to do exactly as I have described. You can follow-up with him if you would like. Keep in mind that there are two psuedo-sales taxes in Canada that add up to 15%, but you get half back at the border when coming back into the US, and the other half back by mail via a check. There are NO import duties/tariffs thanks to NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement).

I hope this might offer you some alternatives.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Brae,

Did you ever figure up how much the road trip would have cost you? What was your break even point? I'd think you'd have to save at least $1000 for it to be worth while at all. Since you said you could have saved $1200 it might have been worth it.

 

[Brae]

Brian, the road trip would have cost me about $125 in gas, and if I fed the second driver probably about $50 in meals. Compare this to the $200 I paid in local sales tax. The moral of that story was that the travel expenses were a complete wash with local sales taxes. Yet, the exchange rate was another story entirely.
For instance, a Servo-15 is CAN$1600, which is US$1024 if, and only if I bought in in Canada at LIST pricing. If I get 10-15% off, then

 

[Brian Bunge]

What about the mileage on your vehicle, hotel rooms, etc.? Would you drive straight through to Canada and back from Atlanta? Even with a second driver that could get dangerous.

 

[Brae]

Brian, I put 400 miles a week on my truck. Lodging was not necessary as the plan was for two driver to non-stop there and back. While one drove the other slept. It would really have taken only two days, not three. Others have done this, are doing this, and will continue to do this.

Its not that the product is considered inexpensive in Canada, but that the exchange rate just works wonders for those in the US when buying Candaian product in Canada. Can you imagine if you were in up-state NY, or in Michigan, or Washing state? And its no wonder that there are certain individuals that are buying new product in Canada and reselling it as a side business to Americans. I've caught two of them thus far.

Still, you could always not spend the money on the road trip. I actually found one or two people 2-4 months back that were willing to make the purchase for me (they were very close to the Canadian dealers) and ship the product back to me. The only problem here is that the portion of the psuedo-sales tax gotten back at the border (708% of thr 15%) might not happen if the butler-buyer ships the product out of Canada.

In this case, imagine getting 15% off from Canada. CAN$1600 times 0.85 is CAN$1564 out-the-door (this includes taxes). It would cost about CAN$70 to ship from Canada to me via insured UPS International, that's CAN$1639, or US$1049 in greenbacks. After all the paperwork to recoup the psuedo-sales taxes I can remotely collect on (via mail), I get back another US$77. Now we are talking about a US972+Butler's Enticement for a product I have yet to get a quote locally below US$1300+Tax (US$1378).

If I find someone, say, in Detroit, the butler's enticement is to keep the other half of the Canadian psuedo-sales tax collected at the border for a one-hour job done well. And yes, I have had this option open to me. The only real fear to fear is that of warranty service. Oh, its under warranty, just Canadian warranty.

Now, imagine a much larger purchase ...

 

[Ian_A]

I have some Canadian pricing I was checking out the Monitor 7's and the Mini Monitors the other day.
Prices show regular price not sale price.
Black Finish
Monitor 7 $899
Mini Mon. $474
Light Cherry Finish
Studio 60 $2000
Studio 80 $2400
Studio 100 $3000

I did'nt check out the subs so no pricing there the dealer also advertised %20 off all paradigm product. There might be some help for when your shopping around. I sure wish I had US. money to spend in Canada.

 

[Edmundo Lopez]

Brae:

What store in Windsor were you planning on ?

 

[Elliott Willschick]

I went to Audio one in Toronto and they gave me the following without even negotiating

Studio 40 $900
Studio 60 $1150
Studio CC $500

Those prices are canadian and without taxes.

 

[Brae]

Livewire Audio

 

[Mike Veroukis]

If they're willing to take 15% off, tell them to take 20% off and you'll be taking the monitors. 20% is like the standard for speakers I think, they should be able to do it. The other option is to go to a competitor and tell them you're getting it for 15% off at the original shop, but you'll but it from them if they give you 20%. You gotta pit the dealers against each other, that's the best way to get a good deal. Good luck!

And yes, I'd get the Monitors, if you don't chances are you'll regret it one day.

- Mike