Upgrade from TAE-9000ES to DA4ES as pre/pro?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Simon Ngan, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Simon Ngan

    Simon Ngan Stunt Coordinator

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    I wonder if this is a good route to go from the TAE-9000ES to DA4ES as pre/pro? The DA4ES seems to be highly rated and the price is way cheaper than Anthem AVM20. I was thinking of the AVM20 for the replacement of 9000ES.

    The 9000ES is rather old, no 5.1 analog in, no DTS Neo6 and DPLII. I already have an Aragon 2005 amp for the speakers so I have no problem with the power from the DA4ES. As a matter of fact, I could use the DA4ES surround channels to power the surrounds and biamp the fronts using the Aragon.

    I do have a nice speaker setup:

    ML Aeon as fronts
    ML Cinema as center
    ML Script as surrounds
    ML Descent as sub
    Aragon 2005 5-ch 200W amp

    So I'm not sure if this is a wise upgrade. The problem with pre/pro is, I hate to spend the money and knowing it'll be out of dated in few months. At least with the speakers and amp, I know I won't be looking for new models for a long time.

    What do you think?

    P.S. I already have SLinke, Homeseer and Marantz RC9200 to control the whole HT so remote control is not a problem at all.

    Thanks for your input,

    Simon
     
  2. Bruce R.

    Bruce R. Auditioning

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    Simon,

    I also had a TA-E9000ES paired with a Rotel RMB-1075 amp (120Wattsx5). Like you, I decided to downgrade to a quality receiver instead of replacing the Sony with an Anthem or any other pre-pro. I can't stand how expensive pre-pros are and I decided that my ears probably can't tell much of a difference anyways since I have a quality power amp. I was deciding between the Sony 4ES and the Denon 3803. I choose the Denon and I'm quite happy with the sound.

    I chose the Denon over the Sony based on the following:
    1. Better quality DAC's operating in a dual diffential configuration.
    2. Better quality 32 bit processor for DD, DTS, etc. (in fact, the same one that the 5803 uses).
    3. More advanced video upconversion than the Sony (will convert all signals to component, not just S-Video).
    4. Personal memory plus which always remembers your settings for surround selection when you switch inputs on your amp, thus, making the receiver far more user friendly.
    5. Adjustable audio delay if you run into a lip-synch problem with DVDs (of which I did a couple of times with the 9000ES).

    Not withstanding the above, the Sony does in fact have more flexible bass management and the parametric equalizer which are nice features. However, I wasn't in need of either of these. An 80Hz global crossover works just fine with my speaker system.

    Anyways, good luck with your decision. Try to listen to other receivers in your price range before deciding which to choose. If you go with the 4ES, call ABT electronics. I could have purchased that receiver for only $638 (their cost is only $520).
     
  3. John S Choi

    John S Choi Agent

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    you will be very happy with either SONY or DENON.

    I was looking at Sony$650-900/Denon$850-1200.00 to use as
    pre/power surrounds.

    I found K/H 520 for under $400.00 at local shop and been very happy.

    I used to own TAE-9000,AVP2,REF30,OUTLAW950...and its not worth it to buy pre/pro for couple thousand $$$.

    I use five Aragon PalladiumII and Hales all the way around.

    I use most of My money on speakers/amps/source and software.
     
  4. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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  5. Simon Ngan

    Simon Ngan Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys,

    Thank you for all the replies so far. I like this type of answer [​IMG] and that means I don't need to fork out a fortune for a new pre/pro.

    The Sony DA4ES and Denon 3803 both look good on the feature list. One thing I don't like about the TAE9000ES is that the fronts and surrounds channels are set using slider. I believe the same applies to the DA4ES.

    Is the DA5ES newer than the 4ES? According to the Sony page, the feature list for 5ES isn't as attractive as the 4ES.

    Thanks again,

    Simon
     
  6. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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  7. Simon Ngan

    Simon Ngan Stunt Coordinator

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    What about if I throw in 2-ch in the mix? Would the DA4ES as good as my 9000ES?

    I've been thinking of getting a nice 2-ch preamp so if the 2-ch performance is not so good, I have no problem getting another gear. However, the question is how do I hook both of them to the same Aragon amp? The ones I'm interested are Aragon MKII (I think I got the model right) and other one is Classe preamp.

    I supposed the preout of DA4ES would go to the IN of the analog preamp, then from the analog preamp to amp? That means I need to remember what the volume level is for the analog preamp to match the DA4ES? Am I on the right track?

    Are you aware of any analog preamp that has some sort of bypass so I don't have to worry about adjusting the volume all the time?

    P.S. Another problem I have is that I have a Sony 300-disc CD changer and I'm using the 9000ES DAC. If I get an analog preamp, I'll be forced to use the internal DAC from the changer. So I'm not sure if I'll gain anything by doing that.

    Thanks again,

    Simon
     
  8. Simon Ngan

    Simon Ngan Stunt Coordinator

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    Also, is there any sonic improvement with the DA7ES other than it has more mulit-zone outputs and a bit more powerful per channel?

    The price in Canadian is $2000 more than the 4ES. I don't care about the touch screen remote as I already have a Marantz RC9200.

    Thanks,

    Simon
     
  9. JakeMcM

    JakeMcM Stunt Coordinator

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  10. Bruce R.

    Bruce R. Auditioning

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    Some people seem to be upset about my comparisons between the Denon 3803 and Sony 4ES. They are both great receivers and even though I chose the Denon, I think that the Sony is probably built better. I've never had a problem with either brand in my lifetime though. My strong feelings for the Denon lie in the fact that it is a poor man's Denon 5803 utilizing much of the same technology as that fantastic receiver. I've read that Sony used a cheaper processor than the 32 bit one that was used in both the TA-E9000ES and the Sony 5ES. Those were both Analog Devices professional quality processors. The Denon 3803 uses the most recent of the Analog Devices top of the line processor. To my ears, the DD and DTS decoding definitely equal if not surpass the processing on my old TAE-9000ES.

    I have no proof that the DAC's are better in the Denon 3803. I can only tell you that the Denon 3803 is dead quiet in its operation in all channels and has excellent low level detail. If you like to experiment with Sony Cinema DSP, then the Sony is definitely a better choice. Personally, I played around with all of the different modes on the TA-E9000ES, but didn't hear much of a difference between them (i.e. Virtual Cinema A,B,etc.).

    The only other important consideration when choosing between the receivers for me was the power amp section of the receiver itself. Right now, I'm using an external amp (Rotel RMB-1075). However, if I someday want to put the receiver in another room without an amp, then I think the Denon wins here. Read the S & V review of the 4ES and you'll see that it wasn't meant to be driven hard with 5 or 7 channels all at once. The Denon 3801, when reviewed by S & V, came much closer to meeting its power amp specs. Denon claims also that the power amp section of the 3803 has been improved over that in the older models according to their literature.

    The last thing that I'll stress is that the Personal Memory Plus is a GREAT feature on the Denons. You'll never find yourself constantly switching surround modes for different inputs. Anyways, both the Sony and the Denons are great to use in lieu of more expensive pre-pros and you probably won't take a bath when you go to sell either one years from now. Buy a $3,000 pre-pro that becomes outdated and you'll learn all about depreciation.
     
  11. Roy Van Nostrand

    Roy Van Nostrand Stunt Coordinator

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    Roy Van Nostrand
    Has the TA-E9000ES really fallen from grace?

    I've been using one for two and a half years. Although, I was one of the first forty to get the first firmware upgrade kit this side of Japan, I just now "flashed" it and I'm still in love with it. No problems, sounds great and I just teamed it up with an ATI 2505.

    Is the DA4ES better? I've been away from the forum for a while and not really paying attention. Please clue me in.
     
  12. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

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    Personally I doubt either reciever would be "Better" than the TA-E9000es (version 2.01 or better). Roy, since I've added the P9000es analog preamp to my E9000es setup, I see no reason to change this preamp setup for years to come. I've been using mine since 1998 (4 software upgrades) and for a 5.1 setup it is still hard to beat.

    The E9000es power supply will set it apart from most receivers under 2k and the DSP engine is superb. Some of the DSP modes are fantastic (Virtual Theater, Cinema Studio, Virtual 6.1) and I can tell WORLDS of difference from some of those verses regular DTS and DD. I can also listen to the DACS in my Onkyo DV-SP800 DVD player (thru the p9000es) and DTS and DD is very good that way as well but pretty close to the regular DTS and DD in the E9000es, which is close to 5 years older technology.

    I did just have the E9000es repaired (had 1 year left on the warranty) and will continue to use it until it fails out of warranty. At that time, I expect a tough decision would have to be made.
     
  13. AaronBatiuk

    AaronBatiuk Second Unit

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  14. Simon Ngan

    Simon Ngan Stunt Coordinator

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    I went to the Sony store and they only had "1" DA4ES demo. I know the guys there and there's only one brand new in Ontario (according to Sony warehouse info.) and everywhere has the demo at best.

    Wow, the thing is really popular I guess. I might try to get the demo for a few days and see if I like it. This will clear my curiosity [​IMG]

    Thanks for all the inputs,

    Simon
     
  15. Gary_R

    Gary_R Agent

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    I still have the E9000ES and, paired with a P9000ES, I have a good combination. I also have five N9000ES amps--one for a "spare" with two biamped and all others bridged for two-channelsThat said, I've had every piece back for some repair or other. I have one year left on the E9000ES warranty.

    I would consider another Sony pre/pro but none seems to be forthcoming. I haven't heard even a whisper about any new releases, 10ES or some other model.

    Gary
     

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