Upgrade: Behringer BFD or Monarchy DIP?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JerryIII, Jan 23, 2002.

  1. JerryIII

    JerryIII Stunt Coordinator

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    I am looking to add an upgrade to my system and was wondering which of these two pieces would add the largest improvement. The Behringer BFD would be used to EQ my two SVS subs. The Monarchy DIP would be used between my DVD player and my Cobalt 307 DAC for 2 channel and between the DVD player and my DD processor for HT. If you are not familiar with the DIP you can read about here: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...ce%20Processor
    I have never tried an anti-jitter device in my system and am curious as to what kind of improve ment I could expect. Thanks in advance for all suggestions.
    Jerry
    BTW: here is my system:
    Pre amp: H/K AVR80II
    DD Pre amp: Sony SDP EP9ES
    3 Channel amp: Parasound HCA 2003 (200w x 3)
    Surround amp: Parasound HCA 1000A (125w x 2)
    Sub amp: Samson S1000 (500 x 2)
    DVD/CD Player: Panasonic A110
    DAC: Theta Cobalt 307
    Main Speakers: NHT 2.5(not i)
    Center: NHT Superone
    Surrounds: NHT Superones
    Subs: SVS CS Ultra, 20-39CS+(on it's way)
     
  2. Patrick_T

    Patrick_T Agent

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    To be honest I have used neither product. That being said I would without a doubt pick the BFD. Jitter is one of those things that has been debated forever. Regardless of how real a problem it is, the fact that debates on whether one can hear it or not support the fact that it is not a night and day thing to fix. Now, room modes are probably one of the most obvious and damaging things to a clean sub. The BFD can be had for less than 150 dollars and you will see dramatic benefits. Even if the price were double I would not hesitate to recommend the BFD over the jitter reducer.
     
  3. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    If it has to be one or the other, I would get the BFD first because it can yield dramatic improvments in some rooms without much cash outlay.

    Then I would save for a better quality jitter reduction unit like a Perpetual Technologies P-1A.

    DJ
     
  4. JerryIII

    JerryIII Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the replies. It looks like the BFD is the way to go. Anyone else?
     
  5. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    I'd also go with the BFD. Will probably yield a dramatic and palpable improvement in sound compared to the other option.
     
  6. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    I own a BFD and echo everyones comments here, get the BFD. It's the biggest single improvement you are likely to hear.

    By the way, I know the DIP works for PCM with 2-channel, but are you sure it works with S/PDIF for DD and DTS? I may be mistaken but I don't think so. I think you need a Camelot Dragon 5.1 for that.
     
  7. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Bruce- You're are correct sir! [​IMG]
    DTS and Dolby Digital are "packeted" data streams, and are immune to jitter. Only linear PCM is affected.
    Jerry- I would definately go for the BFD. Cheaper ($130) than the Monarchy, and I don't believe that I've ever seen *anyone* question the merits of eq'ing a sub, but obviously, we are all aware of the "questions" surrounding jitter and it's effect on CD sound.
    And, do you have any "AC conditioning"? I don't know about typical "filters" like Monster, Panamax, and Adcom, but it has been proven that balanced power units like PS Audio, Equi=Tech, Smart Devices, etc, do improve jitter.
    I see you have a Panny DVD player. Out of the mass market manufacturers, Pioneer is the one that consistently tests really well for jitter.
    Oh, and if you go to the Behringer site and look up the SRC 2000 (I think), *that's* also a jitter reducer (and SCMS stripper) that costs a lot less than the Monarchy.
     
  8. David Proud

    David Proud Stunt Coordinator

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    Another person I have asked this question to says this. That in fact DD and DTS are effected by jitter...

    Don't forget that the clock used to control the sampling rate of the output DACs of a receiver or pre/pro is derived from the "carrier frequency" of the serial data stream used to tranport the digital information from the player to the receiver's digital input. This clocking is separate from how the data is decompressed. The jitter in this derived clock can be reduced by reducing the jitter of the incoming signal.
     
  9. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    When someone can pick up a simple little instrument like the radio shack spl meter and show me on its scale that "There, that's jitter" I'll worry as much about jitter as I do about eq:ing my sub. In the latter case, you can easily show the exaggerated bass frequencies with a simple measurement from said spl meter. [​IMG]
     
  10. David Proud

    David Proud Stunt Coordinator

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    consider this as well. If you use a HTPC and send a AC/3 DTS signal out of it, it will be loaded with JITTER delay, so much that people have complained that DTS and DD are not as good coming from a HTPC as it sounds on a standalone DVD player. This is atributed to tons of Jitter. I have emailed people who have put AC3/DTS jitter reduction circuits between there HTPC and receiver and said the difference in sound was dramatic.
    read http://www.digido.com/jitteressay.html for a good explanation of Jitter. This article explains why pc cards are even more capable of dishing out jitter than stane alone players.
    After much research I beleive the idea of Jitter reduction circuits for AC3/DTS enough to give it a try. How good it works with my ssytem, will be one thing. I will be doing a blind test and will be posting the results in another thread. Since the following link descrebes how jitter effects pc cards, I imagine that my xbox will yeild my best results in jitter reduction.
     
  11. Brian Vaughan

    Brian Vaughan Stunt Coordinator

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    Bruce,

    I thought the same thing until I checked on the link to the DIP and found this phrase: "And the DIP's circuit is compatible with all S/PDIF audio signals from 16 to 24 bits at frequencies up to 96 kHz, including Dolby Digital and DTS." Pretty interesting. I wish my P1A did that!
     
  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Are you sure you're talking about real "jitter" when talking about the HTPC? Or just a poor sound card? Or, the "jitter" that CD-R/RW people talk about, which is not the correct use of the term.
    There have been many threads on this in the past. The consensus has usually been that DD/DTS signals are not affected by jitter. (*My* take on it, anyway. [​IMG] )
    Shoot, if I can find it, I will dig up a quote by an Analog Devices DAC engineer who echoed the same thing.
    Plus, even in the ad-copy of the Monarchy on the audioadvisor.com site, they say that it simply "passes" DD/DTS signals without any de-jitter processing (because it's not possible).
    Plus, check out www.jitter.de. They are selling a product too, but if you carefully read through the site, they also say that DD/DTS signals are not affected by jitter. But somehow the Jisco device they are selling seems to improve the data stream from DVDs with DD/DTS. But it's not jitter.
     

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