Unusual Kit or Speaker Plan Request????

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Shawn Keeler, Nov 13, 2003.

  1. Shawn Keeler

    Shawn Keeler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Has anyone ever seen a kit or plans for a speaker similar to the M&K S-150??? I have heard these before and loved them, but would like to build some in a similar fashion. Let me know what you think.
     
  2. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    M&K designs are a little 'different' than the usual DIY designs. It's a compound loaded (push-pull) with slot loading on the downward firing woofer.

    For additional info about compound loading look at the bottom of this webpage

    Understand that push-pull of course requires 2 drivers so the cost is relatively high. The primary benefit other than slightly lower distortion is higher power handling. One doesn't gain added output from the second driver. it simply lowers the overall distortion a bit.

    You could achieve the roughly same thing (lower distortion, high output) in a more normal box design using one of the Adire drivers with the XBL2 technology. The Sadhara is their 12" and the Tumult is their 15" with the low distortion designs.

    Before someone says "that's not the same kind of lower distortion". I know that, but IMO in the long run it's probably a wash since with modern driver design the even/odd harmonics aren't really a significant problem.
     
  3. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've always been under the impression that the above statement is false.
     
  4. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Frank

    My bad, I was copying/pasting from an old post I had about isobarics. Compound loading does get the added gain.
     
  5. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is still not compound loading. This is just push-pull, which is not necessarily isobaric or compound loading. If two drivers' cones are loaded together to form one moving air mass (two motors working on the same air mass), then that is compound loading, also known as Isobaric loading. The bottom woofer is slot-loaded.
     
  6. Shawn Keeler

    Shawn Keeler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So would that be a no to the question I posed earlier?
     
  7. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Shawn

    At this point people are primarily splitting hairs about 'naming' the M&K design. As a result further discussion will end up in a p*ssing contest.

    If you really want to copy the M&K you need to buy a copy of "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" by Vance Dickason and start researching both push-pull and compound loaded designs with slot (aka resistive) loading.

    I used to be a M&K dealer so am pretty familar with their 'sound' and their designs. To my ears they offer no significant advantage over a regular good (low "Q") sealed box. In years past their designs offered a sonic advantage. But modern driver technology has basically rendered it a moot point.

    I suggest going with something like a Tumult (low distortion/high output 15") from Adire Audio, in a sealed(low "Q") box with a bit of contouring from a Behringer EQ. I'm sure you'd be very pleased with the results. Although the Tumult driver is a little spendy $$; if you were to copy the M&K design you'd be buying two drivers instead of one and have to do a lot more work.
     
  8. TimForman

    TimForman Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah but they look cool and they're 400 watt speakers (joke).
     
  9. ChrisArmour

    ChrisArmour Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Shawn, you were asking about the S-150 Monitor right? I think everyone that replied thought you were talking about the MX-150 sub. I am kind of curious about the design of the MK S-150's as well.
     
  10. TimForman

    TimForman Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Too funny [​IMG]

    Yeap though you were referring to the sub.

    Sorry, but I'm not a fan of those speakers.

    There are many potential issues with comb filtering using a line array of dome tweeters. M&K uses foam to control comb filtering and limit the dispersion.

    Many speaker designs can be easily copied and the XO's designed using one of the design services like Madisound's LEAP program. But the use of 3 tweeters in that configuration would dictate the creation of prototype baffles and doing extensive experimentation and measurements of the tweeter array. Note that the tweeters are probably Seas or Vifa horn loaded soft domes.

    The mid-woofers are nothing special again probably Seas or Vifa 5-1/4" polycones would do.

    So if you have the R&D resources (calibrated mic, MLS software, etc) and the ability to use them, then this would be an interesting winter project. But if you're a speaker design novice I strongly suggest looking elsewhere. A kit MTM design would be a better place to start.

    Note that I'm not saying it can't be done; but the amount of time, labor, and money needed would be such that buying the completed speakers at retail might be cost competitive.
     

Share This Page