Unnecessary to have big mains? (1 Viewer)

[paul clipsel]

For me its always been either a value or physical limitation. The better full range speakers tend to cost a pretty penny, and they take up a lot of room [much to the wifes distaste]. IMO a good well setup sub adding a solid bottom end to music can work well.

PC

 

[Michael R Price]

Mark,

"That said, there is still reason to have larger main speakers. Most main speakers simply run out of gass much below 100-200Hz when it comes to big dynamics and filling moderate to larger rooms. The problem is that manufacturers and consumers need to shift away from thinking that big speakers have to get low. Big can also be used to get louder and cleaner with less power."

I agree completely, and I'm glad someone like you with far more experience than me came in here to say it.

 

[BruceD]

IMO, large main speakers are an asset when it comes to smoothly implementing a xover to subs, unless you're using THX certified speakers (never auditoned any I really liked).

This topic has some in-depth discussion in this thread towards the end of the thread.

 

[Robert_Dufresne]

Mark

The size of a speaker has nothing to do with how it will perform at high and mid frequencies because at those frequencies, size doesn't matter. Just look at the nautilus series from B&W. The tweeter and midrange drivers can be placed in a small enclosure and still perform very well in a big room. The enclosure volume is dictated by how low you want your speaker to go.

If you have a sub to handle the lower frequencies, your main speakers don't need to be bigger than bookshelves.

High quality monitors pared with a high quality sub will perform as well as towers. The trick is to get the sub to blend seamlessly with the monitors. When you buy towers, you don't need to worry about that.

In the end it is a matter of personal choice.

 

[Drew_W]

I thought I responded to that, but I must have missed the submit button. Again.

Anyways, you've got bookshelves and floorstanders there. I like the sound of floorstanders for better bass and midrange definition. This was extremely apparent as I switched from the Paradigm Studio 40s to the 60s. You really need to do some good critical listening.

To be quite honest, I think the Paradigms look mega ugly sans grilles. The Veritas look much better. What made me choose Energy? I had a Take 5.2 setup previously, whose mains I swapped out for the Veritas. I liked the sound of the Takes when I auditioned all the other systems, so I decided to stay with Energy. They have enough bass response to do music without a sub, and so I run them full range. No regrets so far, but I don't have room to go for floorstanders. I'd love to get floorstanders, but the Veritas are superb for their size.

 

[Shiu]

Thank you Drew, and sorry about the typo but you answered my questions anyway. The V2.2i should be fine for me if I XO it to my SVS at 80 Hz. I am still leaning towards the V2.3i mainly because I don't want to pay $600 for the stands that go with the bookshelves. For a few hundred dollars more, I may as well get the floorstanders that could take care of the bass themselves without the subwoofer. This is useful when in "analog direct" mode for 2 channel stereo music listening. In this mode, the subwoofer is not in the loop.

As for the Paradigm, I like their sound but I also find them tough to look at, except for the Signature 2. The old Studio 60 V2 looks much better. What a pitty!

 

[Drew_W]

You nailed it exactly in that first paragraph. Except for the typo bit, I'm a little confused about that. But in any case, I have my Veritas on bookshelves, so I don't need stands. I agree with you wholeheartedly that you should get floorstanders over large bookshelves with stands, especially because of the price difference.

Out of curiousity, what will you be powering them with?

 

[Shiu]

I meant the "harding" bit in my previous post (I edited it just now), you obvious knew I meant "hard time".

I am powering the mains (Polk RTI38)with an old Adcom GFA-555 200W pc power amp. My Sony STR-DA4ES is used as pre/pro but it also powers the centre and surround channels. I am going to trade the 4ES in for a Denon 3805 soon.

 

[Drew_W]

The 3805 is a nice machine.

Bay Bloor Radio's mega bux room (ironically, you have to go through the Bose store to get to it) has a 7.1 Veritas setup. They recently changed the power source to a Denon 4802R. Works fairly well, lots of power, nice machine. It is, however, no match to what was there before, I believe it was a Bryston 6B+4B. I forget what the preamp was, but it was probably the Bryston SP1.7 (or something close to...)

I'm tempted to say upgrade the Adcom, but I have no experience with their stuff, and I know Marc H has some older Veritas running off an Adcom amp. I believe he is the man to talk to about that pairing.

 

[Shiu]

Drew, I have been using the Adcom with a pair of reference 22 connoisseur for almost 15 years. It sounds fine for me, better than the 4ES anyway. I know the Bryston 4B would do better with the Veritas but even a demo 4B costs about 3K. I will have to wait at least a couple of years before I am ready to "upgrade". In fact, I will then simply buy a 4B for music and leave the Adcom with the 4ES (or soon the 3805)to do H.T. This is assuming that I can get the tweeter of my old ref 22 Connoisseur repaired by API. It blew a few weeks ago for whatever reasons. Regarding Bay Bloor, I think I am going to bypass them and head for better deals elsewhere in Toronto.

By the way, did you get the Veritas 2.0Ci, or you just keep the Take 5.2 centre? The 2.0Ci sells for 1K, and it does not have that dome mid range. I would probably end up setting the centre to "no" and let the 3805 down mix the centre to the front channels.

 

[Drew_W]

There are no other Energy dealers anymore in Toronto. You have to go to Canadian Sound out in Brampton or some other place on the outskirts. Funny that in the city where Energy has its HQ there is only one Energy dealer.

I'm still running the Take 1.2 as my centre. Marc H had Veritas 2.0C Factory Seconds for $600CND some time ago, but I wasn't able to get out to Ottawa to get them. If they do come up again though, I do want one, and I regret not being able to get one.

 

[Alan Pummill]

I listen to 90% music, 10% movies. I like the sound of my fairly large Magneplanar 1.6Q/R's for music, either crossed over at 40hz or set to large with no (PC-Ultra) sub. I have never heard smaller towers or bookshelf speakers that have the width and depth of sound stage that my maggies have. Pushing with 600 wpc @ 4 ohm. BTW, these maggies are rated down to 40hz, but I get very good measurable sound down to about 32hz!!

But, I crossover at 80hz on my fronts for movies to get a better blend accross the front 3 speakers. For music....give me BIG speakers.

 

[Marc H]

I really like the pairing of Adcom and Veritas as Drew says and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I do use the combination myself (GFA5802 with V2.8) and have many clients too with similar pairings.

I do have factory seconds available on the V2.0Ci, V2.2i and V2.4i right now but can only sell them to clients within 165km of the shop as per Energy's dealer policy. Feel like a road trip to Ottawa?

My personal preference is for biggin's (speakers I mean) for both music and movie systems. Big image and big dynamics.

Alan, I heard a pair of big Maggies about ten years ago and I know what you mean and that's what I remember most vividly is the depth and width of the soundstage; awesome.

 

[LaMarcus]

Yeah, I've been over Alan's to hear his setup. His huge mains are excellent for what he mainly uses them for....music. But for HT it's just overkill, he has loads of head room for movies on those giants. But it works out perfect for him, because of how much music he listens to. But that's not saying there bad for movies, there just capible of both. (for the price they should be )

In regards to big vs small setting on the speakers, it depends a lot on what equiptment your using to power them. Because I don't have separates and my receiver won't send the same signal level to my sub if my speakers are set to large, that it does when they're set to small. But I would like to have all speakers set to large because of the same thing someone said earlier about bass filling the room more evenly and not having the peaks and what not.

 

[Shiu]

For whatever reasons, the V2.0Ci does not have the dome mid range driver, I wonder how it matches up with the 2.3i mains?

 

[Drew_W]

I've heard it with 2.4i mains, and it is no slouch.

 

[Shiu]

Thanks again Drew, I was thinking about not getting the centre channel now and wait for the next version in the hope that Energy may put a dome mid range driver in it.

 

[BrianAe]

I've heard the 2.4i and 2.2i in stereo setups and really liked them. However, I've heard that the center didn't match up that well. Can anyone comment on this?

 

[Mark Seaton]

That depends on the performance you expect. Anything with a single 6.5" woofer or smaller, with a normal cutoff below 65Hz will easily be pushed to near or beyond its limits even with an 80Hz XO.

Hoffman's Iron law is in effect at all frequencies. The question is just where it is limiting a given design. As a good example, consider a larger 3 way speaker with a pair of 10" woofers designed to extend to say 30Hz (let's consider a sealed box to keep it easy). If different and appropriate 10" drivers were selected to drop in the same box an only needed to extend to 60Hz, the system could increase in sensitivity by up to 9dB. If we cross both speakers over at 80Hz, this means the speaker with the higher cutoff and sensitivity would require ~1/8th the power of the 30Hz design to produce the SAME SPL. That is a rather significant difference in any system.

 

[Michael R Price]

Another simplistic view in support of what Mark says:

If you had a speaker with one woofer, then added another woofer and doubled the size of the cabinet don't you think it would sound better?

(Driver distortion increases with power at all frequencies, not just bass!)