Old Bones

Auditioning
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
14
Real Name
William
While NGASAEB is one of W.C. Fields best know films , the Bank Dick might rate a bit higher . I have all his movies on DVD , wishing for upgrades , but alas I will be long gone before that happens........ being born the day he died .... Aww yes my little chickadee :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Detour (1945)

OliverK

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2000
Messages
4,435
I think you missed the point of Josh's post.

If these companies see that everyone is waiting for a disc to drop to $5, it tells them that the product is not a priority in consumers' lives and may not be a viably profitable long-term business practice.
I have understood it perfectly well but this is not a black and white world where people either pay 5$ or buy in the first two weeks after a release - there are usually many many weeks of sales between the bargain bin and the first weeks after a release.

As for people not buying immediately they may have months where they attend to their HT hobby more and others where they don't and then there are well known sales by for example the Warner Archive and the Criterion Collection where I would estimate the average sales price is closer to 15$ or even more. Then there are people who have to pay shipping costs because they do not live in the US and still want to own a certain title so they do wait a bit until they have a number of titles that they can buy at once to save on shipping, etc. etc.

As long as titles sell well enough and do not cost too much to keep in storage that should be fine. It is sillly to imply that all companies that release discs are too dumb to add up sales numbers and average sales prices of discs.


But, you keep waiting for those sales, just don't complain when they stop making discs.
I mostly bundle purchases to save on shipping costs so this does not really apply here but hey if it makes you feel better to claim that I am "waiting for those sales" that's fine with me.

I still would like to think that in most cases a sale of a disc that has not only been sold to clear out the inventory counts toward the release of similar movies in the future. It may not have the desired effect in every case but I continue to buy the movies that I would like to see more of and I buy them in the format that I would like to see more of. Under normal circumstances this should be good enough, this isn't rocket science.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
I still would like to think that in most cases a sale of a disc that has not only been sold to clear out the inventory counts toward the release of similar movies in the future. It may not have the desired effect in every case but I continue to buy the movies that I would like to see more of and I buy them in the format that I would like to see more of. Under normal circumstances this should be good enough, this isn't rocket science.
I suspect the only definitive answer to this, is how exactly are the executive/managerial year-end bonuses calculated in the home video division of various movie companies.

;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OliverK

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
I think you missed the point of Josh's post.

If these companies see that everyone is waiting for a disc to drop to $5, it tells them that the product is not a priority in consumers' lives and may not be a viably profitable long-term business practice.

But, you keep waiting for those sales, just don't complain when they stop making discs.
At this point, I suspect the damage is already done and nothing is going to convince enough people to go back to dvds/blurays, to be worthwhile for the big movie companies.

With all the being said, I suspect it is the smaller boutique companies where this might still matter. Companies like Criterion, Kino, Shout Factory, etc ....
 

Detour (1945)

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Ontario, Canada
Real Name
Steve
At this point, I suspect the damage is already done and nothing is going to convince enough people to go back to dvds/blurays, to be worthwhile for the big movie companies.

With all the being said, I suspect it is the smaller boutique companies where this might still matter. Companies like Criterion, Kino, Shout Factory, etc ....

The first line of Josh's post was:

" As someone who used to be on the inside with a smaller label, I can tell you that this is what matters most. "

We are all well aware what the big guys think of physical media, it's these boutique label that need our support at the outset, if we want them to be able to keep releasing all these great titles.

Once SHOUT titles start showing up in the $5 bins of Wal-Marts across the country, you can kiss the whole thing goodbye.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
19,048
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
That’s what sunk Twilight Time. Their business model worked when it was understood that $30 was the price per disc and that there were no sales. But once they started doing a once a year sale, people held out for sales and product stopped moving on release day. And then they had to do more sales just to keep the business they used to get on release date. And the way their licensing deals were structured, there just wasn’t that kind of wiggle room in their finances to sustain that. Even if Nick Redman hadn’t passed, they were in a tough spot where the number of copies sold at the prices they were selling at just wasn’t enough to sustain it.

It is a very difficult time for makers of physical media.
 

David Weicker

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
3,586
Real Name
David
So, is this 'smaller label' (that Josh worked for) still an ongoing concern?

Cause if it isn't, then taking business advice from a company that didn't make it isn't necessarily wise.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
19,048
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
It is. They’ve shifted with the times. Digital partnerships with streaming outlets that get their content seen. Physical releases for content that continues to sell, fewer BD releases in niches that didn’t have the numbers to back it up. As far as I know, from the outside looking in, they’re doing well because they’re looking at home entertainment as an entire ecosystem of which discs represent just one portion of the whole. But they’re in a position where they manage physical and digital rights so they can do that. Boutique labels that strictly license content for discs rather than owning it or having wider licenses have more limited options in what they can sell and where.
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: Detour (1945)

OliverK

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2000
Messages
4,435
(On a huge counter-intuitive tangent).

I use these "price points" in a complete different context. Basically if something doesn't dip into dump bin prices, then I don't purchase it. This is a way of severely restricting my extreme OCD "compulsive completionist collecting" mindset in regard to dvd/bluray.

I am using a "Jedi Mindfuck" of "no dump bin price = no sale" on myself, largely as a way to avoid jumping onto the OCD treadmill of a particular title/series. If a tv series or movie doesn't get released at all on bluray (or dvd) as a result of my actions, then all the better in regard to treating/squelching my extreme OCD behavior.

My personal "sanity" is more important to me as I get older, than any dvds/blurays OCD treadmills. :)
It looks like this may restrict your choice of movies on disc!

I can understand where you are coming from but that seems a bit excessive if you want to be able to still buy physical media in the future. I would strongly doubt that for example Universal would like to see a large percentage of its UHD Hitchcock boxset production run in the bargain bin before people buy it. They will just conclude that it was a bad idea to release it in the first place and never follow up with a second box.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
As long as titles sell well enough and do not cost too much to keep in storage that should be fine. It is sillly to imply that all companies that release discs are too dumb to add up sales numbers and average sales prices of discs.
The question is who exactly is doing the "storage" and who is paying for the storage costs directly?

An intermediate distributor or any other "middleman" between the movie company and retailer shelves, will have a mind of their own and start making huge objections if there's too much inventory collecting dust from a particular movie company.
 

OliverK

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2000
Messages
4,435
The question is who exactly is doing the "storage" and who is paying for the storage costs directly?

An intermediate distributor or any other "middleman" between the movie company and retailer shelves, will have a mind of their own and start making huge objections if there's too much inventory collecting dust from a particular movie company.
Very true, at some point retailers will want to move those discs or charge for storing them.

Many factors that come into play here but as there are quite a few specialty lables now all over the world some companies seem to have figured it out for now.
 
Last edited:

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
Many factors that come into play here but as there are quite a few speciality lables now all over the world some companoes seem to have figured it out for now.
Imho one operation which got it right done pat, is Warner Archive.

They don't have to deal with the headaches of high volumes of returned unsold inventory, and they sell direct to the customer and select retailers (ie. amazon).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Conrad_SSS

willyTass

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
681
I think you missed the point of Josh's post.

If these companies see that everyone is waiting for a disc to drop to $5, it tells them that the product is not a priority in consumers' lives and may not be a viably profitable long-term business practice.

But, you keep waiting for those sales, just don't complain when they stop making discs.
Sadly I think that one of the things that un-did twilight time

the number of posts on Blu ray.com of people livid at the idea of paying $29 for a movie and boasting about waiting to pick it up cheap on a sale

and they have the hide to call themselves movie lovers
 
  • Agreed
Reactions: Detour (1945)

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
Sadly I think that one of the things that un-did twilight time

the number of posts on Blu ray.com of people livid at the idea of paying $29 for a movie and boasting about waiting to pick it up cheap on a sale

and they have the hide to call themselves movie lovers
Unfortunate side effect of the mass market for dvd/bluray over the past two decades, and how it heavily imprinted such "dump bin" price points on an entire generation of movie collectors. Not surprising really.

Back in the laserdisc era, I rarely ever heard any griping about the higher (non-inflation adjusted) prices the hardcore collectors were willing to pay per disc back in the day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: willyTass

Worth

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
3,894
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
Sadly I think that one of the things that un-did twilight time

the number of posts on Blu ray.com of people livid at the idea of paying $29 for a movie and boasting about waiting to pick it up cheap on a sale

and they have the hide to call themselves movie lovers
Ultimately, it depends on the movie. There are a handful that I'd pay $100 for, a few that I'd pay $50 for, and a huge number that I'd be interested to see, but I'm not willing to spend more than $10 on. Those of us outside the US are already paying through the nose for many titles - the cheapest you can find Criterions here is $40 and 4K discs are rarely less than $30. I'm not going to spend that kind of money on something I've never seen and am probably only going to watch once. If money were no object, I'd happily buy everything at full price to watch on my IMAX home cinema, but alas, that's likely not happening anytime soon.
 

Worth

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
3,894
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
...Back in the laserdisc era, I rarely ever heard any griping about the higher (non-inflation adjusted) prices the hardcore collectors were willing to pay per disc back in the day.
The notion of owning a film wasn't really a thing then - everyone rented. And it's kind of come full circle with streaming services. A generation brought up on Netflix sees no reason to own a copy of something, when they can just press a button on their phone/iPad/laptop and have it appear out of the ether.
 

Todd Erwin

Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
6,126
Location
Hawthorne, NV
Real Name
Todd Erwin
They actually couldn’t have. Part of the sale terms included giving up the Fox name. And as a brand identity thing, it makes a lot of sense. The name “Fox” now carries much different connotation than its historical origins due to the other divisions of Murdoch’s company, to the point where top flight talent was openly stating they wouldn’t work with the company, and talent that was working for the company was publicly expressing their discomfort in being contractually obligated to do so. The name was no longer neutral.

I think Disney got it right. They’re not removing the logo from older properties. And everything that the general public associates with a “Fox” film, the music fanfare, the logo, the branding, that’s all actually from the old “20th Century Pictures” company that merged with Fox a century ago. By re-establishing the 20th Century brand, Disney is keeping all of the nostalgia associated with the company while sidestepping a business association that would be harmful to their brand and generate major consumer confusion.
Although we seem to be getting way off topic here, I agree that Disney made the right decision. In the electronics world, many once well-recognized brands have no meaning whatsoever anymore due to licensing deals. Pioneer, Polaroid, RCA, Sharp, Toshiba, Magnavox, GE - most of those names are now owned and/or licensed by different companies depending on what sector the products fall under, and has created a lot of confusion among consumers.

General Electric is a good example: GE Appliances (refrigerators, washers, dryers) is owned by Chinese company Haier. GE Lighting (light bulbs, smart switches, etc) is owned by Savant. GE electronic accessories (universal remotes, cables, etc.) is owned by Jasco. All, including what is left of the actual GE, use the same logo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcroy

Todd Erwin

Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
6,126
Location
Hawthorne, NV
Real Name
Todd Erwin
That’s what sunk Twilight Time. Their business model worked when it was understood that $30 was the price per disc and that there were no sales. But once they started doing a once a year sale, people held out for sales and product stopped moving on release day. And then they had to do more sales just to keep the business they used to get on release date. And the way their licensing deals were structured, there just wasn’t that kind of wiggle room in their finances to sustain that. Even if Nick Redman hadn’t passed, they were in a tough spot where the number of copies sold at the prices they were selling at just wasn’t enough to sustain it.

It is a very difficult time for makers of physical media.
At the 2008 HTF Hollywood Meet (?), we sat down with Twilight Time, and one of the things they said to us was that while some titles sold out almost instantaneously (Christine, both releases of Fright Night), many barely made a blip on the radar. Yet, they still made the minimum run of 3,000 copies. When studios like Sony opted not to renew their license with Twilight Time and instead re-issued those titles via MOD under their own program or licensed out to another third party (Shout! Factory, Kino, Mill Creek), that was pretty much the beginning of the end for them.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Detour (1945)

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,917
Real Name
jr
General Electric is a good example: GE Appliances (refrigerators, washers, dryers) is owned by Chinese company Haier. GE Lighting (light bulbs, smart switches, etc) is owned by Savant. GE electronic accessories (universal remotes, cables, etc.) is owned by Jasco. All, including what is left of the actual GE, use the same logo.
(At the risk of going further offtopic).

Nowadays it appears GE looks more like a bank/financial institution, than an "industrial" or manufacturing company. (Ever since Jack Welch).
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,846
Messages
4,722,019
Members
141,350
Latest member
slimtweigth