Ronald Epstein

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Obviously there are people who think that Disney could have done better with Fox which would not be that difficult. For starters they could have kept the name - the studio was called Fox not 20th Century last I discussed their catalog - and kept releasing catalog titles on disc. Maybe you do not think that was a reasonable expectation given what Disney did with their own catalog before they acquired Fox and I would agree but I don't have to like it.

I think the jury is still out regarding other entities being able to release Fox titles on disc, has anybody heard about that? As for the Murdoch family I always expected the worst from them so no surprises there.

This is generally my issue with Disney.

They have come across as a company consistently trying to erase to clean up history.

While I understand the political tie with 20th Century Fox and Fox News, there was no demand/need to erase the name.

And, once Disney took over Fox, it was apparent that they weren't going to do anything with its catalog as far as 4k is concerned except releasing a small handful of token titles to the format. Now, it seems Disney wants to kill the 4k disc format altogether.

I take this matter a little more personally because there were people over in the Home Entertainment division that we really liked, were very concerned about making a difference with the catalog product they owned, and now no longer work for the studio.

I just think Disney was the wrong company to take over Fox. Whether any other company would have done better is a big unknown.
 
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Mike2001

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For starters they could have kept the name - the studio was called Fox not 20th Century last I discussed their catalog ...

While I understand the political tie with 20th Century Fox and Fox News, there was no demand/need to erase the name.

There was no decision being made here at all. This has always been a part of their agreement with Fox...

View attachment 76857

Guys, I know dumping on Disney is what the cool HTF kids do but let's at least do so with accurate information...
 
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RichMurphy

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Zanuck’s 20th Century Pictures merged with an almost bankrupt Fox Films in 1935. So, yes there was just a 20th Century at one time.
I'm getting off topic here, but I always found the early mergers of film production companies to be fascinating. Many Warner Brothers films were called "A Warner Bros. - First National Picture" decades after First National Pictures ceased to exist. And while Samuel Goldwyn never made a movie for or was involved in management at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, at least he contributed his lion.

goldwyn lion.jpg
 

ManW_TheUncool

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So we should keeping buying discs right? How else can we help?
Yeah, this and Universal's apparently good responsiveness (eg. the Psycho 4K disc audio issue) makes me think I should lean towards buying more discs than not (at least for cases that may otherwise be borderline for me) instead of relying even more on digital purchases.

_Man_
 
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OliverK

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Guys, I know dumping on Disney is what the cool HTF kids do but let's at least do so with accurate information...
Not sure if this has been confirmed?
Does that mean anything will change for catalog titles? If that isn't the case I would not care one way or another.
 

Todd Erwin

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Universal had massive layoffs across all divisions and departments, mostly downsizing, although some departments, such as Creative Design at the theme parks, were gutted. My former producing partner was part of those layoffs at the Orlando park, but was lucky in that he was in management and has now been assigned to train and oversee the building of their new theme park in China.
 

TravisR

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So we should keeping buying discs right? How else can we help?
I think that's the only thing that the consumer can do. That's why I generally try to buy discs as soon as possible rather than waiting for a sale nowadays. Needless to say that's not a luxury that everyone can afford but I think better sales early on help keep discs coming.
 
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Josh Steinberg

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For starters they could have kept the name
They actually couldn’t have. Part of the sale terms included giving up the Fox name. And as a brand identity thing, it makes a lot of sense. The name “Fox” now carries much different connotation than its historical origins due to the other divisions of Murdoch’s company, to the point where top flight talent was openly stating they wouldn’t work with the company, and talent that was working for the company was publicly expressing their discomfort in being contractually obligated to do so. The name was no longer neutral.

I think Disney got it right. They’re not removing the logo from older properties. And everything that the general public associates with a “Fox” film, the music fanfare, the logo, the branding, that’s all actually from the old “20th Century Pictures” company that merged with Fox a century ago. By re-establishing the 20th Century brand, Disney is keeping all of the nostalgia associated with the company while sidestepping a business association that would be harmful to their brand and generate major consumer confusion.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I think that's the only thing that the consumer can do. That's why I generally try to buy discs as soon as possible rather than waiting for a sale nowadays. Needless to say that's not a luxury that everyone can afford but I think better sales early on help keep discs coming.
As someone who used to be on the inside with a smaller label, I can tell you that this is what matters most. Fair or not, preorders and first week sales numbers are the ones that matter. If you’re waiting to buy something you want until Amazon has it down to $5, it means that all parties have accepted that the title wasn’t in demand and are taking a loss just to reduce the cost of storing unwanted product, which pretty much guarantees no more will follow.
 

cadavra

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I can confirm this. 80% of new titles' sales occur within the first two weeks. After this, they simply stop paying attention. This is one reason why I was always having issues with Sony, constantly telling them catalog sales were a marathon, not a sprint. I got into an argument one day with a woman who said the Budd Boetticher box had only sold 5,000 copies. I told her that was just the first two weeks and the numbers were undoubtedly much higher. She asked her assistant to check, and the number came back: 23,000 and change. Of course, rather than admit her error, she just dismissed it with a "doesn't matter." It's assholes like this (and they are legion) who really ruined the disc market.
 

MatthewA

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I can confirm this. 80% of new titles' sales occur within the first two weeks. After this, they simply stop paying attention. This is one reason why I was always having issues with Sony, constantly telling them catalog sales were a marathon, not a sprint. I got into an argument one day with a woman who said the Budd Boetticher box had only sold 5,000 copies. I told her that was just the first two weeks and the numbers were undoubtedly much higher. She asked her assistant to check, and the number came back: 23,000 and change. Of course, rather than admit her error, she just dismissed it with a "doesn't matter." It's assholes like this (and they are legion) who really ruined the disc market.
That explains why so many TV shows they released on DVD crashed and burned and were abandoned after one season: they must only have counted the first two weeks of sales.
 

OliverK

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I think Disney got it right. They’re not removing the logo from older properties.
Oh, I thought that going forward future releases of older titles wouldn't have the original logos.

If they keep them I don't have a problem with Disney releasing new movies under the 20th Century brand, I have an issue with no physical releases of Fox catalog titles on Blu-ray and UHD though. I think last year Shawn Belston pointed at a UHD release of Patton. Haven't heard much about that one since Disney took over and I wonder if they would allow a third party to release it as a UHD disc..
 

OliverK

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As someone who used to be on the inside with a smaller label, I can tell you that this is what matters most. Fair or not, preorders and first week sales numbers are the ones that matter. If you’re waiting to buy something you want until Amazon has it down to $5, it means that all parties have accepted that the title wasn’t in demand and are taking a loss just to reduce the cost of storing unwanted product, which pretty much guarantees no more will follow.
Understandable but on the other hand many people do not want to be the suckers who pay a lot more than people who wait a bit.
It would help if fluctuations in price wouldn't be that drastic.

Apart from that if the price is right I do not see how a sale after 4 weeks would be less valuable than a sale in the first week. Labels should be smart enough to be able to know that sales of catalog titles are different than sales of new releases.
 

Detour (1945)

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Understandable but on the other hand many people do not want to be the suckers who pay a lot more than people who wait a bit.
It would help if fluctuations in price wouldn't be that drastic.
I think you missed the point of Josh's post.

If these companies see that everyone is waiting for a disc to drop to $5, it tells them that the product is not a priority in consumers' lives and may not be a viably profitable long-term business practice.

But, you keep waiting for those sales, just don't complain when they stop making discs.
 

jcroy

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That explains why so many TV shows they released on DVD crashed and burned and were abandoned after one season: they must only have counted the first two weeks of sales.
Most likely this is indeed the case. As a reflection of this nowadays, every other new rookie show is released dvd-mod from the start or is not released at all.

The way I see it, a recent season 1 dvd-mod set being released is a sign of the movie company having very lukewarm expectations for it. (ie. They don't want to end up with tons of returned unsold season 1 inventory).
 
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jcroy

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As someone who used to be on the inside with a smaller label, I can tell you that this is what matters most. Fair or not, preorders and first week sales numbers are the ones that matter. If you’re waiting to buy something you want until Amazon has it down to $5, it means that all parties have accepted that the title wasn’t in demand and are taking a loss just to reduce the cost of storing unwanted product, which pretty much guarantees no more will follow.
(On a tangent).

From what I've read about the music business of yesteryear, this sounds almost identical to how record company executives use to think back in the day.

First week sales of a new cd album was EVERYTHING !!!

For a big release such as a then-new album by Michael Jackson, Guns 'N Roses, Britney Spears, N'Sync, Pearl Jam, etc .... back in the day, allegedly they were watching the first several weeks cd sales (or first month sales).
 

jcroy

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Understandable but on the other hand many people do not want to be the suckers who pay a lot more than people who wait a bit.
It would help if fluctuations in price wouldn't be that drastic.

Apart from that if the price is right I do not see how a sale after 4 weeks would be less valuable than a sale in the first week. Labels should be smart enough to be able to know that sales of catalog titles are different than sales of new releases.
(On a huge counter-intuitive tangent).

I use these "price points" in a complete different context. Basically if something doesn't dip into dump bin prices, then I don't purchase it. This is a way of severely restricting my extreme OCD "compulsive completionist collecting" mindset in regard to dvd/bluray.

I am using a "Jedi Mindfuck" of "no dump bin price = no sale" on myself, largely as a way to avoid jumping onto the OCD treadmill of a particular title/series. If a tv series or movie doesn't get released at all on bluray (or dvd) as a result of my actions, then all the better in regard to treating/squelching my extreme OCD behavior.

My personal "sanity" is more important to me as I get older, than any dvds/blurays OCD treadmills. :)
 

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