Universal at CES

DaViD Boulet

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Hardly.

Every single Blu-ray disc released from Sony, Disney, MGM, and Fox provides lossless audio (BD's bandwidth has plenty of room). Some even provide more than one lossless track for multiple-language lossless qualtiy.

Only about 27% of HD DVDs provide lossless because of space/bandwidth limitations. Warner and Paramount (the two studios who were at one time supportig both formats) didn't provide lossless audio on BD reliably because they didn't want the BD to have an advantage, so even when there was room (as there was on every BD) they wouldn't provide lossless if the HD DVD didn't have it.

This is why many of us have been frustrated with warner for "dumbing down" their BD encodes for HD DVD limitations. Hopefully with BD-exclusive authoring, WB's HDM qualtiy will improve to match that of the other BD-exclusive studios.
 

JonZ

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"What I wanted to see with HDM was a better, more filmlike video presentation. The average DD or DTS track on SD DVD smokes what I hear at my local cinema, so lossless is just gravy for me."

x2
 

Manus

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" Every single Blu-ray disc released from Sony, Disney, MGM, and Fox provides lossless audio (BD's bandwidth has plenty of room). Some even provide more than one lossless track for multiple-language lossless qualtiy."

I did say ' many' not 'all' . Lossless sound is indeed appreciated , but a quick trawl through the reviews section of Highdefdigest.com reveals many releases
with unforgivably poor PQ and few if any extras . This would not encourage anyone other than early adopters to view the format as replacement for SD .
Its not as if 'the consumer has made a choice' that Sd isn't good enough and are clamouring for it to die .

Stll , from here on in , one would hope that as your signature states , 1080p and 24 bit become the norm . I remain to be convinced though ,especially as stupid Region Coding still exists even on catalogue releases ( Fox) thus preventing many of us from really committing to BD as a format . That's one area where it is definitely a poor relation to SD .

~M~
 

DaViD Boulet

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Aside from the handful of first-release MPEG2 disasters, BD picture quality out-ranks HD DVD. Dan Ramer at dvdfile did an excellent un-biased discussion of that for anyone who wanted to take the time and see how the actual numbers fell out for someone (Dan) with hundreds of discs on both formats in roughly a 50:50 ratio with a state-of-the-art 1080p display system.

Most of the high-bit-rate AVC compressions from Disney and Sony are astonishingly transparent. Though some of Warner's VC-1 encodes are outstanding as well (the Harry Potter releases among them).
 

Douglas Monce

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Thats all fine and good David, but if the disc won't even load in my blu-ray machine, what good is the lossless audio. I've never had an HD DVD that wouldn't load, Unfortunately I can't say the same of blu-ray. Lossless audio is not the end all be all of HDM.

I think your assuming a lot. Did Paramount and Warner not provide lossless on blu-ray because they didn't want BD to have an advantage, or because most BD players couldn't play lossless audio? You know some companies are not comfortable with PCM audio because they don't want a perfect copy of something out in the public that they can't control how it can be reproduced.

Doug
 

Douglas Monce

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Dan Ramer has his opinion, my mileage may vary.

Frankly picture quality on HD DVD and blu-ray is pretty much a wash IMHO.

Doug
 

Paul Beck

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Since I have been in the position of owning both formats since June of 2006 and have gone through many players (ny hobby), I believe my opinion is as good as Mr. Ramer's. I have written to him a couple of times over the past two years and mostly got told my equipment could not be as good as his. Mostly because I only have a 73 inch DLP TV and has has a large projection screen. That is debatable.
My collection cinsists of a total of 511 High Definition titles [that is not individual discs since some titles have more than one disc] of which 297 and HD-DVD and 214 Blu-ray.
When I had the Samsung P1000 many BDs had problems and seven had to be returned for replacements of which 6 replacements also did not play. Currently I own the Panasonic BD30 - my fourth Blu-ray player and finally one that actually plays the discs.
My Toshiba XA1 was given to my neice and is still going strong with the updates really making all her discs work great.
I own the Toshiba A35 now and find it plays everything.
Note that HD-DVD specifications were finalized in July 2005 (I have a copy dated July 6, 2005). Contrary to this Blu-ray is just now coming up with what they call 'final' specifications sometime soon.
Since I own this number of discs, I have plenty to play of both formats.
My only gripe about Blu-ray is their insistance of using "gamers" type of menus on many of the discs. As a non-gamer (possibly a dying breed?) I find them annoying and generally it takes me longer to get into the movie than with the more easily used HD-DVD menus.
Also, have you noticed how many posters here don't even have High Definition equipment? How can you make such statements without direct experience?
 

Chris S

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I agree. Given equal content I'm hard pressed to find any differences between them.
 

Dave Moritz

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I agree as well, picture quality between the two are a wash. But where the advantage comes in is storage and data transfer rate that allows Blu-ray to have a lossless track. Where the HD-DVD version would most likely use Dolby Digital Plus.

I have a small collection compaired to others (aprox. 140 HD titles). And the only two HD players I have owned are the Toshiba HD-A1 and the Sony BDP-S300. The HD-A1 pisses me off sometimes when it decides to lock up or the sound hickups and becomes unsycronized. I basically have that problem when playing Dolby True HD tracks, my therory is that the bitrate trips up the player and causes the problem. I own a Sony 720p HDTV that accepts 1080i input. So far I have been impressed with both formats and I have enjoyed them both. But like I have stated before its time for one to die so the industry can more forward.

This year I am saving up for the equipment that will replace alot of my current HT gear. I am saving for the following in order to have a better HD exsperience and to take full advantage of all lossless titles.

Denon AVR-3808ci 7.1 Receiver
Denon DVD-2500 BT Blu-ray Transport
1080p 60" HDTV (looking at Laser TV, DLP and Plasma ???)
HD-DVD 1080p player w/ HDMI 1.3 - Currently on hold (HD-A35 ?)
Adcom GFA-7705 5 channel power amplifier

So after I purchase this equipment I will be buying alot of HDM and I am hoping that Universal will go Blu by then.
 

DaViD Boulet

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??? PCM is the most fool-proof way of delivering lossless on either format. It is exactly what it is. The only disadvantage of PCM over other codecs is bandwidth efficiency, which is a much greater problem on HD DVD (why we see PCM more rarely on that format).
 

Dave Moritz

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I was not aware that any HD-DVD's offered a uncompressed pcm track. Could you please point them out to me, please. I would love to pick up a title with a pcm track on HD-DVD so I can check it out.

I can not wait to see Jurassic Park on Blu-ray with a DTS-HD MA track.
Well actually lossless at least even if it Dolby True HD or uncompressed PCM. It would sound awsume with one of those tracks.
 

Robert Crawford

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From the brief discussions I had with Dan Ramer out in LA, he is a Blu-ray proponent, but isn't as vocal about it as you or Bill Hunt.





Crawdaddy
 

Shane Martin

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A total of zero BR players decode DTS HD MA. Decoding and sending them bitstream are quite different. If you don't consider them different then 2 HD DVD players will sent DTS HD MA bitstream.
DTS HD MA is not a moot argument because:

1. MOST BD players don't send bitstream. Less than a handful do.The PS3 does not and will not ever do that.
2. DTS HD MA is used by Fox, Speilberg, and New Line. I'm also seeing future Lionsgate releases with DTS MA.
 

Douglas Monce

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Your missing my point David. PCM is extremely easy to copy. Meaning its extremely easy to pirate. Most companies don't like the fact that there is a perfect copy of their intellectual property floating around out there that can so easily be duplicated

Doug.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Dan Ramer is a great guy.

If you read his stuff you'll realize he does prefer Blu-ray.

However, speaking with him, I believe he knows how to keep
an open mind towards both formats and doesn't have an agenda.
 

Robert Crawford

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Doug,
The Pan Labyrinth HD DVD has that codec. It will probably be the last one to have it unless Universal or Paramount releases product with it.





Crawdaddy
 

Shane Martin

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That's why BD+ exists. HD DVD's are essentially like DVD's in that they have NO copy protection. AACS was broken a long time ago and they don't have a 2nd layer of protection.
 

Douglas Monce

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Good to know. I'm I right in assuming it also has a DD+ track for backward compatibility?

Doug
 

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