Underwhelmed by SVS in new room

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by BrianMe, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. BrianMe

    BrianMe Stunt Coordinator

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    I have an SVS 20-39 PC+. At my old house, it was located in a corner in my living room. The living room was on the main floor with a basement underneath (i.e. firing against a subfloor). The sound was unbelievable. The room was about 13X20 and it was awesome. It would shake the seat when hitting certain lows.

    Fast forward to my new house. I have an area in the basement for the new home theater. It is about 13X25, with an area on the right that opens up to the staircase and an area in the rear that opens to the rest of the basement. I have the sub located in a corner in the front. It is sitting directly on the carpet/pad which is on top of the cement pad.

    I am completely underwhelmed by the sound now. It doesn't have the punch it used to have and won't go nearly as low as it used to. If I turn it up, it only begins to rumble without adding any real punch. I imagine this is due to having a cement floor now. What can I do to increase the capability of the sub in this environment? Man, I miss the feeling in the old room.
     
  2. MikeyWeitz

    MikeyWeitz Supporting Actor

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    It is a combo of the cement floor and the larger room (you have to count the WHOLE basement if their is an opening to the rest of it.

    Either seal that opening off OR (your best bet), get it a friend and run duals.
     
  3. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    What's an "SWS"?
     
  4. BrianMe

    BrianMe Stunt Coordinator

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    I mistyped, it should be SVS, not SWS.

    I can't believe it is the room volume. My old room was 13X20 and it had openings in the back and side with a large frame window.

    The new space has a larger opening in the back (the opposite end as the sub) but it also has taller ceilings (10' in this space). I knew there might be some drop-off, but honestly this is bad.

    I don't have the space for duals, wish I did. I don't think I should need duals in this space, but I could be wrong.

    Is there a way to better use what I have? What about building a stage for the sub? Would that help?
     
  5. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Too bad you don't have a response plot on the old room, you could EQ to emulate it. You might have had a bump around 40-50hz that gave a good solid thwack.
     
  6. MikeyWeitz

    MikeyWeitz Supporting Actor

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    You could try a subdude for $50 from sweetwater.com to see if that helps, but probably won't all that much.
    At this stage, I would try moving the sub to a different location (closer to seating maybe) and see if that helps.
     
  7. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    The two rooms are completely different. A solid floor isn't going to give you that feeling the open floor did.
    I know what you mean as I had a 25-31PC+ - lived in a apt for while with it and it shook the place. Moved into a house and HT went into the basement and I lost some of that tacticle feeling. Your best bet is to buy another SVS or sell that one and get a PB2isd - Email Tom/Ron and see what they recommend for the new room size. My guess would be add another Cylinder or sell it and upgrade to the PB2isd or PB2+.
     
  8. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    I think this is why some THX specs enforce a 35hz sub cutoff - use the bass power where it can hit like a drum, just on the verge of truly tactile infrasonics. 105db at 35hz will do some damage.
     
  9. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    I had a single Hsu VTF3 MKII in my 13x24 basement theater that is closed off from the rest of the basement and has carpet over cement flooring. While the single sub shook the heck out of the sofa pretty good adding a second VTF3 MKII is like liftoff on the sofa. A second sub on carpet over cememnt will do the trick. Now things hit with serious punch in the chest.
     
  10. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    105 db at 35 Hz is not all that hard to achieve. The THX Select spec allows manufacturers to sell THX certified subwoofers for a reasonable price. The THX Ultra 2 spec requires 20Hz reproduction. That is not cheap.

    If you can place your sub next to the listening postion that should help. If not, email Ron S at SVS and see what he can suggest.
     
  11. BrianMe

    BrianMe Stunt Coordinator

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    My sub will do 20hz, so I don't think that's the issue. I am using the fight scene in matrix (when morpheus breaks his knee through the floor of the dojo) as my reference scene. Before, it would literally shake the couch, now, it's only above audible. Quite dissapointing. I'll contact SVS.

    Brian
     
  12. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    I think the only option you have to emulate the same impact and tactile feeling is to build a wooden riser that covers the basment floor, a sub or false floor as it is known (sub not meaning subwoofer).
     
  13. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    Brian,
    I still got good bass with the 25-31PC+ and my basement is 12' * 28' with opening in the back. Like I said it wasn't like it was in the apt but I expected that.
    Did you try placement and did you run avia/dve again. If I recall mine still hit hard. Mine was corner loaded where each corner was drywall and concrete.
    I tried many different locations and that was the best.
    Suggestions:
    Placement, rerun avia/dve as the receiver/sub will need to be recalibrated for the new room.

    chad
     
  14. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Have you walked around the room during some bass heavy scenes? Could be your in a null spot. Trying different placements would possibly help the situation.
     
  15. stephanX

    stephanX Stunt Coordinator

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    THX says it needs to be AT LEAST -3 db at 35hz, it can be better. Also 105 db at 35 is a piece of cake, i can hit 120s at 40hz.

    my friend had a theater professionally done in his basement, with a cement floor, make a riser just big enough for the couch and the sub, then place the sub beside the couch on the riser and BAM you get all your shaking back. ALot of the seat shaking is mechanichal interaction between the sub and the surface its on, rigid surface=less shake.

    OR and im surprised no one mentioned this, aura bass shakers?(or a buttkicker)

    ALso calibrate calibrate calibrate, calibration and placement are VERY important for sub frequencies.
     
  16. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    I've seen DVDs, AVRs, and pre/pro's spontaneously change settings, especially after being unplugged for a while.

    Check all your settings in both the DVD player and the pre/pro - make sure the DVD player is sending a bitstream signal and that the DRC circuits are Off/Disabled in the DVD player and the pre/pro.

    A concrete floor combined with a large null at the listening position could certainly alter felt impact over your previous room. I'd plot the FR and see if you are sitting in a large null.
     
  17. BrianMe

    BrianMe Stunt Coordinator

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    I'd do that too if I knew how the heck to do that!

    I've been in contact with Tom from SVS. I faxed him over my approximate room specs/layout. I'll see what he has to say.

    I can't put a full floor riser in, I already paid $8 sq/ft for carpet (ouch). I could put the couch on a riser, but I was planning on putting in two rows, with the second row on a riser. Having two rows on risers would put the second row pretty high. Would putting just the sub on a riser have an impact? Probably not as I still wouldn't have the mechanical interaction.

    I definetly need to recalibrate. I calibrate with an SPL using the test tones from the receiver. I should get a copy of Avia. Where do I get a copy? I'm sure that would also help me set up my Samsung 46" DLP upstairs and my Infocus 4805 downstairs as well, seeing as they are brand new.

    I know I don't have optimal settings, I'm just trying to make the best out of what I have. The last house didn't have optimal settings either, and it rocked. It seems there a lot of variables in play here, but I'm concerned that they had this much of an impact. It may simply be due to room volume. I went from about 2000 cu. ft. to about 3500 (75% increase). However, I was told when I bought the sub that the 20-39 PC+ was good for the inevitable upgrade I was going to make in homes (I asked for 20 X 20 X 8 volume at the time, which is 3,200).

    Thanks for all the suggestions.
     
  18. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Some times its other things in the room besides just the CU FT. How far up does your cement slab come up from the ground into the houses foundation?, What type of ceiling material, sheetrock or other and was it insulated? Just some things to think about. I would try a few other places closer to your seating, maybe even in the back. If that does not work your going to have to upgrade to like a box Ultra. I had dual subs before finding SVS. I now have a PB12 Ultra and its much better than the duals I had before... Shakes the crap out of you. Another thing to do is go to the sub forum at AVS and search cement floor. A lot of folks with similar problems there. Good luck.
     
  19. BrianMe

    BrianMe Stunt Coordinator

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    The cement walls vary. The wall that the screen is on goes all the way up 11'. The ceiling height is 10'. In front of the cement wall is a frame 2X4 wall which is insulated, drywalled, and plastered. On the left sidewall the cement only goes up 4 feet, and then an exposed all goes up to the 10' mark. The half wall is framed, insulated, drywalled, and plastered as well. The ceiling is drywalled and plastered too.
     
  20. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Maybe build a short (2-4") riser just for the couch that extends enough to fit the sub on it in behind, or a custom shape that fits just the couch and has a spot for the sub in back or on the side. Something like this maybe, viewed from the top

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