Ultimate subwoofers (1 Viewer)

[Vaughan]

Can anyone tell me what is currently the most powerful subwoofer in both maximum sound pressure and frequency responce?

 

[John F. Palacio]

No size or $ limits?

By frequency response, you mean low frequency cutoff?

 

[Mike Poindexter]

The most powerful home ones will be Infinite Baffle designs. These are all DIY projects. After that, you will have the folded horns that they use for commercial venues. Think of the subwoofers they would use at an Eminem concert. Still not the type of sub you would use in a home setting.

I think that the record should belong to the nuclear subs - as in submarines. They have an ultra-low frequency sonar that will hit 215db!! It has been determined by the military to be the cause of death of many whales, some over a mile away. Again, not a solution you could use at home and if you did, it would flat out kill you. It would put out 1,000,000 times the bass that my woofers put out and I have yet to meet somebody who has more bass than me in a home installation. (flat to 15Hz on every channel and 32 servo controlled 12" woofers)

For truly low frequency effects, subs will lose out to tactile transducers like Buttkickers, which will shake down to 5 Hz. Tactile transducers will lose out to motion simulators that can go down far lower than 5 hz, but at that point, you cannot measure SPL very accurately. The Odyssee Motion Simulator will hit with 2G's of force and can go from a theoretical high of 100Hz (16 bit, 200Hz sample rate of data per channel, 4 channels) and a more real-world high end of 40Hz down to below 1 Hz.

I don't have the buttkickers, but instead opted for the motion simulator and will be one of the first with their new XL version that has 40% more throw distance. They are even programming three hours of Babylon 5 for the simulator at my request!

 

[Phil_DC]

I want a Motion Simulator bad but at $16,000.00 MSRP it will have to wait, need a new FPTV first.

 

[Andrew Walbert]

215db?! Uhm.. Wow. I have to ask, where can I get more information on that? If I ever become filthy rich, I'll have to commission somebody to integrate such a device into a Ford Econoline van. Then I'd just casually show up to some car audio show, blow the doors off the othere vehicles there (literally, perhaps?) and of course refuse to let anybody see inside the vehicle. Ah, that would be amusing. "What you got in that thing, a nuclear reactor?"

Realistically, though, are the Motion Simulators worth their insane price?

 

[Mark gas]

215db for the sub is in water not on land. The loudest sub bass (below 80 hz) on land is in the mid 170's. No one has broken 180.

 

[Mike Poindexter]

Realistically, though, are the Motion Simulators worth their insane price?

MSRP on the Odyssee 1.4, which is the base model, was $20,000 and I believe that as of November 1st that number increased to $23,000 but I could be mistaken.

As to what something is worth, that differs from person to person. I know people who think a 61" HDTV isn't worth $1000. Different people have different priorities. I bought an Odyssee 1.4XL because I beleive that it is "worth it" and there is no cheaper alternative. You can get cheaper speakers or a smaller TV, but you cannot get a cheaper motion simulator. Buttkickers are not the same thing.

One thing I like about the motion simulator is that the library of F/X encoded movies is growing every month, making it more and more valuable as time goes on.

Besides, what is an insane price? $10,000 for a projector? $8,000 for a surround sound speaker package? $6,000 for sources, amps and a processor? $2,000 for a screen? $6,000 for 8 leather recliners? In that list, $16,000 for a motion simulator doesn't sound all that outrageous. It won't be the most expensive item in my theater, but it sure will be one of the most talked about.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

It won't be the most expensive item in my theater, but it sure will be one of the most talked about.

I don't know Mike, it might be a toss up with your IRS system.

 

[Vaughan]

John- No I mean subsonic frequencies below 20 herz

 

[Shawn Solar]

I thought 194db was the highest level the atmosphere could contain. Might be different in a liquid such as the ocean.

 

[John Doran]

the contrabass is definitely the best single sub of which i am currently aware:
http://www.servodrive.com/cb.html
although SVS is coming out with some new products with absurd properties - allegedly 130db at 25hz, and user adjustable tuning from 5hz and up, or something like that.
- jd

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

Isn't the BassTech 7 a higher level model than their ContraBass?

 

[Andrew Walbert]

Ah yes, I had been under the impression that 194.x was the highest attainable in the atmosphere, though in water, I suppose the levels increase exponentially as "atmospheric" pressure increases. Who knows, maybe someday there will be movie theaters built in water-filled volumes with various motion devices to create better ambiance and enhance the LFE effects while also increasing dB levels. Or maybe that's just something that I'll experience in a dream and then wake up thinking I was drinking a bit too much tonight, eh?

As for the ultimate on-land sub, what I've concluded from reading through the forums here is that the SVS subs are the best in terms of output at low frequencies, and if the new "super sub" from SVS can actually output at 5hz with a low THD and respectable SPL, then it would probably be considered the ultimate. But that's if the rumours are true. Otherwise, I suspect there is something better out there, I just haven't come across it yet.

Of course, this debate should also include the option of multiple- vs single-sub setups. In a lot of the 175-176db vehicles out there, a sick number of subs are being used. Of course, at those pressure levels, it sounds horrible, but I don't believe we will see a sub that can take both crowns for a long time. Besides, who really wants a sub that will do 180db at 5hz? Well, ok, yeah, I do, but I'd never want to witness that unless I was about 100 meters away. I suppose an argument can be made that tweeters and mid-range drivers are at the point of diminishing returns for every advancement made in design, because a very large portion of the population at large cannot hear the differences beyond a certain point. However, subwoofers seem to be a bit behind in that regard, probably because for a long time, nobody really paid much attention to their design.

Ahem, I'm babbling, I'll stop now.

 

[Dustin B]

Even 100m away from a 180dB source it would still be around 140dB. I'd want to be around 500m from it or have a good set of ear plugs in :p
I think the Basstech7 can get louder than the Contrabass, but not in the last octave.
Mark posted this picture a while ago:

Appears to be 4 BassTech7 subs and 4 SPL-TD1 speakers being used for noise cancellation of a jet engine

 

[Mark gas]

The are a number of cars that are doing the 170's with only 2 subs and somthing like 16 amps. look at this site for some realy big subs.
http://www.shockeraudio.com/final2002/

 

[Sihan Goi]

The loudest thing I've heard so far were 75mm calibre tank rounds firing off and bangalore torpedoes ingiting...not sure how loud those are in dB though, and I was most definitely wearing earplugs.

 

[Dustin B]

$8000 for 4 of Shocker's top 18" drivers gets you 28L of Vd. Less than $4000 for 8 Adire Tumults (15") gets you over 40L of Vd.

The Tumults linear excursion capabilities are longer than the maximum suspension travel of the Shockers top drivers.

Eventually the Brahma18 will be available. It will be capable of even more displacement than the Tumult and will still be a quarter the cost of an 18" Shocker.

Not to mention you can also win SQ competition with Adire's stuff. I highly doubt you could with Shocker's stuff.

 

[Mark gas]

Not to mention the shocker 18's can handle somthing like 12000 watts and hit the 175 with only two subs. while theres scottie Johnson with 9 brahmas in a wall and only hitting 170.6. You can pull out all the secs you want but nothing beats real world facts.
Scottie Johnson:
http://www.termpro.com/asp/competito...=3192&Season=0
Paul Nelson:
http://www.termpro.com/asp/competito...10130&Season=0

 

[Dan Hine]

Mark,

I keep waiting for the day that you realize that it is NOT the quality of the drivers in these installations that are hitting the levels they are but the quality of the installation itself.

I know you'll hound on me when I say this but I know virtually nothing about car audio. But I do have an understanding of what makes a sub a good sub and what it takes for them to reach high spl levels. And it is MUCH more than just high power handling. You MUST have the throw, you MUST have the cone area, and you must have it be linear to sound good. Most of the car audio subs that get mentioned on this forum have the cone area but no where near the excursion or low distortion. And they cost more than those that do (usually).

And also, since this is the HOME THEATER FORUM, I would much rather have 120db at 20hz than 170db at 45hz and up.

You can pull out all the secs you want but nothing beats real world facts.

Specs from reliable companies make real world facts. If a driver can out displace another, handle more power, and have lower distortion than another driver then it CAN be better. Don't blame the driver, blame the installation.

 

[Mark gas]

Install plays a big part in spl and I know this is a ht forum but when people started talking about tanks and subs in water I thought I would bring up car audio. Also in ported boxes linear excursion xmax does not play a big part when subs are played at the Frequency the box is tuned at.
Also look at http://www.ddaudio.com/