UFC Ongoing Thread

Casey Trowbridg

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Andres, the argument for Ken Shamrock killing the promotion is that if he doesn't get cut the day of the fight, then Petruzelli doesn't need to be his replacement and isn't going to be able to make those comments 2 days later on the radio. Also, the reason Shamrock got cut is that he was doing some rolling in the hours before the fight. Why was he doing this? It seems that Shamrock was none to happy when he found out just exactly how much more Kimbo was going to make for the fight than he was and tried on both Friday and Saturday to get more money. Failing at this, to relieve stress, he decided to do some rolling to get ready for the fight and that's when he got cut.

After that whole thing both CBS and ProElite officials were very cold when Shamrock's name was brought up. So again while Petruzelli's comments may have been the final of many, many, many nails to be driven in to that coffin he wouldn't have gotten the chance if not for Shamrock's screw up.

As for the incident described by Steve, it wasn't actually the company's CEO that was doing the jumping around and such but it was a high ranking executive. It was Jared Shaw, the son of well-known boxing promoter Gary Shaw. In several interviews with consultant to EliteXC and the former owner of Icon Sport T.J. Thompson, Thompson described Shaw's behavior that night as disgusting and an embarrassment.
 

Mikah Cerucco

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There are a lot of people happy to see EliteXC die. I'm not one of them. I'm also not a person who feels a loss should be the end of the world for a MMA fighter. UFC has a lot of people on the roster (and that roster has undergone trimming), but there are lots of other MMA fighters out there who deserve showcasing. Fighting in a small venue somewhere with no TV play isn't showcasing. For that reason, I've been a fan of Affliction and EliteXC -- especially Affliction since I'm more comfortable with the way they're set up (they dont' "own" fighters -- they promote fights... fighters are also able to take fights in other promotions). Anyway, I'm not happy about EliteXC's death, even though I'm not a fan of some of the people involved.

But on to more pressing matters. Some way, some how, MMA fans deserve to see the Gina Carano/Cyborg fight. Maybe Affliction can step in, though I liked EliteXC's production values more.

And speaking of other promotions, when the heck is Cung Le going to fight again?
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Cung Le will not be fighting until maybe early 2009.

He's been involved in some film projects and he is reported to have only 1 fight left on his Strikeforce fight contract.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Watching UFC 90 last night, I came to understand completely why Anderson Silva would consider retiring at the age of 35 or after he sees 5 more fights.

Even before the injury to Cote, he was posing no serious threat to Silva. Sure, it was the first time in Silva's UFC career that the fight went to the third round but that was more of Silva's doing than anything else. I mean there wasn't any instance before that point where I thought, Patrick Cote can win this fight.

Silva's in a bad position financially because the division he fights in is the weakest in terms of big-name talent. Dan Henderson and Rich Franklin are 2 big stars at Middleweight but he's already vanquished both of them in convincing fashion. Guys like Cote and Yushin Okami aren't going to set the PPV box office on fire and if you're Silva and you've got a PPV bonus in your contract you want matchups that will get the public's attention. Michael Bisping could be a guy with whom Silva could make some decent money if they fought in the U.K. but Bisping doesn't mean a whole lot to U.S. fans so how well would a show that he headlined do on PPV? Other than that, the division doesn't really have anybody and Silva's shown he'so much beyond the league of everyone he's fought (maybe Henderson is closest in terms of ability). It has to be boring to have no real competition in your class.

He could go to light heavyweight and that would give him more competition and it would result in bigger pay-days but is he really comfortable at that weight? Yes, I saw what he did to James Irvin but that's James Irvin who is not Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell or Quinton Jackson.

So maybe after he finishes up his 5 remaining fights on his contract he will walk away, be free to do the Boxing match with Roy Jones Jr. and make more money off that one fight than maybe his entire UFC run combined.

The worst UFC show I've seen on PPV is still UFC 61 (light years are between that show and the next worst) but if you didn't see last night's, it is perfectly ok to not go out of your way to see it.
 

Mikah Cerucco

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I did see it, and I was disappointed in Anderson Silva. I may learn things in the future that alter my perception, but watching that fight, I was disappointed. I couldn't be disappointed in Cote because he was doing all he could. Silva, on the other hand, almost appeared to be saying, "I appreciate that you took this fight because you're a fighter -- let's see if we can get you out of here without too much damage."

I mean, I know he sizes people up, but he basically walked around the ring for the whole first round. Exactly what's the goal? Whatever it was, I'm sure many in the audience didn't get it because not even Joe got it based on what he said while announcing.

Just really disappointing all around. If you're that much better, you go in, take care of business, and get out. There's really no excuse for phoning it in. Basically what that fight said is, "There's nothing left for me competition wise, so I'm just showing up for the money." That's not the Anderson Silva I'd come to know. I'm really hopeful Dana White will do something about the situation.

On the other hand, I wasn't disappointed in the whole card because I saw an interesting fight between Thiago Alves and Josh Koscheck, and even more so, the fight between Sean Sherk and Tyson Griffin. Sherk/Griffin specifically I thought was a close fight, even though it was unanimous and the winner won just about every round on all the judges scorecards.
 

Andres Munoz

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Agreed Mikah. Don't know what was up with Silva but he sure wasn't his usual, devastating self on Saturday. It's like he was toying with Cote and giving him some "hope". Too bad Cote blew out that knee and couldn't continue. That sure wasn't the ending we all wanted to see.

But yes, on the other hand, the Alves/Koscheck and Sherk/Griffin matches more than made up for the main event. I think Alves deserves the title match by now. What do you guys think?
 

Andres Munoz

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Very, very unlikely that we would see Kimbo in The Ultimate Fighter but how crazy would it be if he did take that offer?
 

Casey Trowbridg

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A TUF season based around Kimbo Slice would probably do the best ratings for the show since season 1 when the show benefitted from being on right after WWE Monday Night Raw. A TUF season based around women and featuring Gina Carano would also do big numbers and would probably inject some life in to a stale show. Although, Junie Browning has been a ratings power house this season much to the dismay of MMA purists and those of us like me who aren't really fans of drunken stupidity in any walk of life.


Kimbo's best move IMO would be to head over to Japan and be a mega star. Kimbo Slice would be gold in Japan because they're more appreciative of the kinds of things we in the States would call freak shows. Bob Sapp was rediculously popular in Japan for many years and I can't see any reason why Kimbo couldn't be on or slightly below that level especially if they gave him tomato can opponents at first like they did when Cro Cop returned to Japan after his run in the UFC.

There has been talk of Kimbo going to pro wrestling but the problem there is that while Kimbo looks like a superstar and he has a superstar ora about him, his ability to cut promos leads a lot to be desired and that's a must especially in the WWE. Although his name was mentioned to Vince McMahon by someone in creative according to this week's Wrestling Observer Newsletter. It didn't get a strong reaction either way.

Thiago Alves will face the GSP/Penn winner for the belt, mark it down. I give him a great chance to beat either one of those men BTW. If GSP can't take him down then that's bad news because I think Alves is a better striker. Credit to Koscheck for taking the fight on two week's notice.

Remember the argument a few months back about whether or not UFC was doing too much and over-exposing their product.

Imagine if the UK show hadn't existed and they had done Chicago on Oct. 18 and then the Couture/Lesnar show on Nov. 15.

So now UFC 89 could have had Silva/Cote on top, Bisping/Leben next, Alves/Koscheck third, Dos Santos/Werdum forth and Sherk/Griffin to open.

Then on Nov. 15 you would've gotten: Couture/Lesnar, Vera/Jardine, Stevenson/Florian, Chris Lytle Vs. Paul Taylor and Sokoudjou Vs. Luiz Cane.

Then you take guys like Shane Carwin and Gabriel Gonzaga and put them in fights on the Dec. 10 show so that they get TV exposure. UFC wasn't thrilled that Shane Carwin's UFC 89 fight didn't make TV here in the States because they want to make him in to a star.

So see, taking out one show that really didn't need to happen and you improve your cards the rest of the year and not just in terms of what is televised but also in quality of prelims.


One more thing, UFC did an absolutely terrible job at UFC 90 of promoting the Couture/Lesnar fight. They needed to interview one or both of them for next month but talked to neither and they had time because the show went off the air early. How the company didn't do something so basic to hype up the next fight is beyond me.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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I'm not sure what will get my vote for fight of the year.

I am sure that Paulo Filho Vs. Chael Sonnen at WEC 36 will get my vote for worst fight of the year.

Filho committed career suicide on this night.

1. He missed weight for a title fight in which he was the champion.
2. He did absolutely nothing in the third round of an absolutely desasterous fight.
3. It is bad to have points 1 and 2 against you when the UFC is deciding which Middleweights to bring to the promotion and which to let go.

Worst fight I've ever seen in the WEC by leaps and bounds. Even Kalib Starnes wasn't as bad as Filho in the third round. Unfortunately, Sonnen didn't go Nate Quarry on him.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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UFC 91 is tonight and I would've figured on more discussion going in to the show.

So who does everyone have in the main event?

Here is how I break it down:

Brock's advantages: Bigger, Stronger, Faster, Younger, athleticism
Randy's Advantages: Experience, best gameplanner in MMA, known comodity, conditioning, Submissions and punching technique.
Brock's questions: does he have a chin? can he go five rounds? Does he have the ability to finish?
Randy's questions: Can he carry Brock's weight for an extended period of time if need be? How will a year away from the Octagon affect him? When does his age finally catch up to him?

Brock weighed in at 265 and Randy at 220 for the fight. So figure Brock comes in at around 280 he'll have some 60 pounds on Randy. Randy's submissions aren't great but they're better than any that Brock has been able to show in his career thus far.


Randy's best strategy is to avoid being taken down by Lesnar which means keep his distance, use his good boxing technique to score points and get Brock to chace him hoping that will lead to a mistake he can capitalize on. If he wears Brock down then he should be able to impose his will in the 4th and 5th rounds if Brock has gassed out.

Brock should look to take Randy down and ground and pound him. Even if he can't finish him with GNP he can make Randy carry his weight around for awhile and carrying 280 around will tire you out no matter how good of shape you are in. Randy isn't a big submission threat (even Randy says his submissions aren't that great) but it isn't out of the realm of possibility especially if Brock makes a mistake. I don't see Brock submitting Randy.

As for who I will predict to win, my head says Brock and my heart says Randy. I've got a good hunch we're going all 5 rounds but a Randy submission of Brock or a Brock TKO of Randy via GNP is not out of the question.

I picked Sylvia to beat Randy and then I picked Gonzaga to beat Randy. It seems that the best way for me to support Randy tonight then is to pick Lesnar which is what I will do.
 

Mikah Cerucco

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Really, I can't add to what you've said. My take on the fight (which I'd predict as biggest fight of the year) is that I hope Randy wins, so I'm picking Randy. Do I see Brock having a legitimate shot? Youbetcha. I couldn't help noticing that when talking of Brock, it was said that he was able to make it _down_ to the 265lb limit for the heavyweight class. Down to. Jesus. And I still remember him hitting that guy in his last fight and the guy flipping over. If Brock wins, I'll just say "oh well" and move on. But I want Randy. Everyone knows Randy has to lose, and lose soon. Is this it? Nobody knows. But at 45, his days are numbered.
 

Andres Munoz

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Hard to believe I'm saying this but I think this is actually the toughest test that Randy has had in a while, if ever. The fact that Brock is such an athlete and has such brute strength and wrestling skills not to mention Randy's age has got to make this a very very tough match for Randy. This is one fight that I'll be happy with whomever wins.

Switching topics to TUF, did you guys watch this week's episode? I can't remember most names but did guys see that idiot with the big head who thinks he can't be knocked out? LOL. He's all drunk in the bathroom with his friend asking him to hit him as hard as he can because he can't be knocked out and then he dropped like a sack of potatoes. That has got to be one of the funniest scenes in the history of the show, lol.
 

Mikah Cerucco

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I haven't watched the show yet. I'm saving them up. I have to be in the right mood for the antics. I tried skipping (fast forwarding past) that stuff one season, but then I also missed a lot of information about the personalities and backgrounds of the fighters -- and that's a big part of TUF. I'll just have to catch myself when I'm ready for the silliness. A guy ramming his head into a wall just isn't why I'm interested in MMA.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Well, I'm expecting an apartment full of people, can't remember the last time I was expecting this many for a UFC show.

Anyway, if for some reason you want to follow along with my recap or read it when the show is over, you'll find it here and you can also vote in our poll to predict the main event winner.

Usually, I'm interested in at least 1 preliminary bout that I wished had made it to air, but not tonight. If something ends up being good, I'll want to see it but there is nothing going in that intrigues me. Of course, that's partly because the Hazelett Vs. McCrory fight got moved to the main PPV card when Amir Sadollah got hurt.
 

Andres Munoz

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Casey, re: TUF, totally agreed. That shit is just too much and is getting out of hand.

UFC 91...wow. I'm surprised and at the same time I'm not. Randy had a big mountain to climb, literally and he tried his best but Brock is just too strong and he throws bombs.

So there is the potential to see a Lesnar - Mir rematch if Mir beats Nogueira. That would be really interesting to see as Mir handed Lesnar his 1st UFC loss. And Lesnar is a better fighter (at least, he should be) so it should be a much more different fight.

I'm surprised nobody is commenting on the PPV. This was arguably one of the biggest main events of the year.
 

Mikah Cerucco

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I will dispose of the "might" and say that in my mind, Brock is unquestionably a better fighter than he was when he fought Mir. He was truly mixing things up. He had standup (he'll never be mistaken for Sugar Ray Leonard in his prime, but it was there), he was working the clinch, he had knee game (I don't care who you are, you're going to feel a knee from a 280lb guy -- and they were lifting Randy off the mat), and what I consider good presence and patience. I don't feel bad that Brock won.

Watching the fight, I didn't think the punch that felled Randy was all that hard of a punch, but apparently I need to learn a few things because I seem to have that impression a lot lately. Then again, in this case, I could easily see it as Randy was already wobbly from things that occurred earlier. To me, it was only a matter of time once I saw Randy wobbling. They said he recovered, but I didn't buy it. Perhaps "somewhat recovered."

I watched it a few times, so I'd guess that means I really enjoyed it. Randy looked really beat up after the fight. There were a lot of punches followed up by a lot of forearms/elbows to Randy's face/head.

I'm still looking forward to what Randy will do next. If he retires, so be it. It's time. It's been a great career. But I'm also looking forward to what Brock will do next. For some reason, one of the fights I'd really like to see is Brock against the babyfaced assassin. Maybe it's because the size would be a bit of a better match. Basically, Randy went in there and fought a guy 50lbs heavier. That's the equivalent of a 155lb'er taking on a 205lb'er (though the impact of weight difference isn't a linear scale). Randy's really a LHW anyway, but he was run out of that division by Chuck Liddell.

If I understand the contract situation now, he owes UFC one fight. UFC can drop him, give him a fight soon, or drag him out for that last fight. After that, he may be able to go to Affliction. Of course he may be too old, and have lost too much luster for the Fedor superfight by then.
 

Andres Munoz

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Yeah, you're not kidding. Those knees looked lethal.

How great would it be to see Brock and Fedor face each other? One can only dream...
 

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