TWO SUBS-What is best?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by steve nn, Jan 13, 2002.

  1. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    I'm wondering if it is best too hook up two subs line in line out or to use a Y at the reciever.Both are powered.I have tried both options and both seem to work well.Thank you for any help that might come my way. steve nn
     
  2. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    If you are sure your sub doesn't have a high pass filter on the line out that you are daisy chaining to the second sub with, that should work fine. If you aren't, I'd go with the Y adapter.
     
  3. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Thanks Dustin.The first sub is the sony WM-40 in to the sub out on receiver and the second is plugged into line out on the Sony.The Sony being the first in the line has level,phase and cut off freq.the second in line does have high pass filter witch I have set to on.I can turn it off though.Any thoughts? Thanks again. steve nn
     
  4. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    I would just Y it where the subs are and then just set up each sub like it's the only one. Then mess with levels on both. That way no confusion about what signal each sub is getting.

    If it's a regular DD receiver, then you should have the built-in crossover disabled if possible.
     
  5. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I will soon have 2 subs. I plan on using the better of the 2 subs as the LFE sub and the other one as a dedicated rear/surround subwoofer.
     
  6. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I don't know enough about the Sony to know for sure. I did a look on Sony's website and it mentions that the wm40 has a line level output for an additional sub. If were you have the second sub plugged into the wm40 it labelled as 2nd sub out or something similar I would say you are fine. Same if the manual explicitly states the output you are using is for a second sub.

    If it doesn't, I can't tell you for sure it doesn't have a high pass filter or not, in which case I would get a Y adapter and run both subs off the receiver.
     
  7. Frank James

    Frank James Auditioning

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    Well I just added a 2nd sub (Definitive Tech PF15TL+) for more bass than I was getting from my Kenwood SW300 (10" 100watts). I 1st had the DT15 running the LFE and hooked up the kenwood with my surrounds and set them to large. But the Subs were canceling each other out (even messing with the phase). So I left the kenwood unused for a few weeks to make fine adjustments to the 15". I then keep reading about if you have two subs to place them on top of each other.
    Boy were they RIGHT!!! But I'm only using 1 sub out on my reciever (has 2) I'm using the line level outs on the DT15 with the high pass Xover set at 40 that runs to the kenwood sub and its Xover set to around 90. (Kenwood only getting between 40 to 90hz)And both gains on the subs are at about 11 oclock right now, still need to fine tune alittle. But the Bass just totally ROCKS. Even with the DT15 running by itself and the gain at about 2 oclock position the bass wasn't this good.
    So I would stick them in the corner and on top of each other with a Y connector if I was you. You might need to mess with the phase switch if either has one. (I did)So they don't cancell each other out.
    Good luck,
    I'm a Rockin Now!!! [​IMG]
    Frank
     
  8. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Frank

    Glad two subs are working out so good for you.I have herd two equals three.Is that called ergonomics?The Sony sub toats it self as a daisy chain sub.I have tried both ways and can't tell any difference.I do know I sure like having two though.I had a scheme to get three but my wife put a quick stop to that plan.Guess I can't blame her.I have taken over the living room.I put my two subs-one 10ft to right of TV in corner up front and the other to left of couch in back using the wall and a china hutch as a sort of corner effect.I better not try stacking them because I might like it and there would be another two week fight in store.How many watts is your new sub?Sounds like a ROCKER.

    steve nn
     
  9. Frank James

    Frank James Auditioning

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    Quote:
    "I put my two subs-one 10ft to right of TV in corner up front and the other to left of couch in back using the wall and a china hutch as a sort of corner effect.I better not try stacking them because I might like it and there would be another two week fight in store.How many watts is your new sub?Sounds like a ROCKER. "
    Steve, if you don't want to stack them, just make sure the two subs aren't canceling each other out. As I 1st had mine set up like yours. 15" upfront and 10" in the rear. And the Bass was not was I was expecting. So I unplugged the 10" kenwood and the Bass was better with the 15" alone! But then I stacked them and BAM[​IMG]
    Like I said, it totally Rocks NOW.
    I'd try and stack them if I was you, I think you'll like it[​IMG] try it when your wife is away!
    Oh my new Definitive Tech PF15TL+ is 500watts. And believe me, its even better with the 2nd sub on top. It gives me the Bass in the chest feeling sooo good [​IMG]
    Frank
     
  10. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Frank,

    OK I will give it a shot.I did read that when you put two together like you are talking about it gives it a 3db or some thing efect,giving two the sound of three.I have tried just one then the other.My two the way they are set up definitely sound better than one.You have me thinking now though so I will have to try the stack effect.I will get back and let you know.Might be gruesome if I like it.I will blame it on Frank-That guy on the Forum.Thanks Frank.

    steve nn
     
  11. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    The idea is supposed to be that with two idential subs you get a 3dB increase from double the driver area and another 3dB increase from double the power. So ideally two identical subs that aren't cancelling with each other should have an addition 6dB of headroom over one.

    Don't know about this 2 is like 3 stuff though. Doesn't matter what two identical subs you choose, same thing will happen.
     
  12. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Dustin and Frank, Well I gave it a try and it did not help.I put in pearl harbor-DVD and it seemed isolated.It did sound good but having one in the corner and the other to the left of the couch gave me the best sound.It seemed rounder and 1/2 to 2/3rds volume on them is all I can really take.I don't know why I keep fidddling.I guess I just want the best I can get out of it and OK i'm obsessive.Sorry guys but I'm very new to this so its hard for me to keep up with you on some of your feedback.I just watched The Hunt For Red October for the first time with reall sound.What a difference.I watch this once every two months.I have been missing out.I'm definitely getting my moneys worth.Frank,I here you.I feel it as much as I here it.Sonic waves are a good thing.Good going to ya. steve nn
     
  13. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    A couple things to keep in mind....

    First, the 6 dB increase has to do with a concept called coupling. Normally, when you double the number of drivers outputting the same signal, you'll get a 3 dB increase in SPL. e.g. if you have a speaker putting out a 1kHz tone and you add another one right next to it powered off another channel of amplification, you'll get a 3 dB increase in SPL. But, if you have 1 Hsu VTF-2 and you add another VTF-2 and put them right next to each other, you'll get a 6 dB increase across the board. Keep in mind that both subs are powered identically. This is 'coupling.' If the 2 drivers are much closer together than a wavelength of the frequency they are producing, you'll get 'coupling' and you therefore get more than the regular 3 dB increase in SPL. Since sub 80Hz frequencies have wavelengths longer than 15 ft. or so, this is why it works. Plus, this is the reason that the SVS guys and others recommend putting dual subs right next to each other. It's not just the possibility of phase cancellation; you don't want to miss out on the coupling.

    This "trick" is used all the time in pro audio, and it's the reason why at shows the sub cabs are all right next to each other.

    Also, if you have a single driver and you double its power, you'll get a 3 dB increase in SPL.

    Hope that helps clear things up!
     
  14. Frank James

    Frank James Auditioning

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    Steve, sorry you had to move your sub for nothin! But you'd never know till you try, right? Anyway, I'm glad you found the setup that works best for you. Every Home Theater room is different, mine is only 12x12ft. Thats probly why mine works best stacked. But I think I'm gona take down a wall this summer to make it about 22x12ft, I'm obsessive too, LOL. And I just bought 4 more DVD's today!
    Good luck and keep the house a rockin! I am[​IMG]
    Frank
     
  15. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Frank it could be that my room is not square.22x12 with two entrances and couple of other openings to show off stair railing and such.Jody came in after I made the change and said and whats going on here.I said I herd having them separated like I did could fry my big screen.No fight.HMMMM.She ran a errand and by the time she got home I had them back to reg. configuration.Not a word was said.Maybe I'm wearing her down.Twenty year project so far.Was no problem trying it out though.What DVD's did you get?I'll bet part of your decision was base.I have been working on getting a DVD collection going.All VHS except six.I need to stick to DVDs now that my eyes have been opened.jurassic III sure was good for sound.Well if one is good and two is better then what about three.I could get a third and just hide it?I know I can trade in my 100 watt and get a bigger one to go with the sony?That way I will stay with-in my boundarys.Bet your listening to your new movies tonight. steve nn
     

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