Two Godfather II plot questions(SPOILERS) (MERGED THREAD)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ushabye, Oct 22, 2001.

  1. Ushabye

    Ushabye Projectionist

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 1999
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland.
    Real Name:
    Paul
    The Rosato brothers attempt to kill Frankie Pentangeli telling him just before they garot him, "Michael Corleone says hello" to make him think that it was on Michael's order (when in fact it was Hyman Roths).

    For what reason are they lying to him?

    This lie only serves a purpose because he's left alive and ends up testifying to the senate commmission because he thinks Michael has betrayed him. But that's all accidental. Its pretty obvious that they are KILLING him when the cop walks in by chance and the whole thing goes to hell. Then what was the purpose of lying to him at the begining?
     
  2. EugeneR

    EugeneR Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2000
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pure sadism, I think. Make him feel betrayed and then kill him...
     
  3. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 1997
    Messages:
    5,547
    Likes Received:
    215
    Location:
    DFW
    Real Name:
    Steve Tannehill
    Moving this to Movies...

    - Steve
     
  4. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
  5. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    1
    Just got through watching GFII and I have a simple plot question. Why did Willi Cicci testify against the family to begin with? I'm guessing he was subpoenaed, but why would he testify against Michael? Are we to believe that he's just talking plainly about operations in the family or is this seen by anyone as a betrayal (including himself)? If I'm not mistaken, no action is taken against Willi for his testimony.
    Now before I go, I have a technical question too. Why is the exact same exterior shot of the Tahoe house used in GFII at the 1:03:22 mark (on the 2nd disc) AND used in GFIII at the 0:01:57 mark? It makes sense in GFIII b/c the windows are all boarded up and the rest of the house is in disrepair, but why would the windows be boarded up at the end of GFII? The windows we see Michael through while Fredo is being killed are not boarded up. Is this a mistake or foreshadowing?
    Peace,
    DM
    ------------------
    "We all end up dead, the question is how and why."
     
  6. AjayM

    AjayM Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2000
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  7. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    We don't learn anything about Cicci's situation with law enforcement, but I've always assumed that he was arrested after the gun battle in the streets following the unsuccessful hit on Pentangeli. I doubt he was licensed to carry a concealed handgun, and it wouldn't be hard to come up with various charges like assault with a deadly weapon. He could easily have made a deal to get out from under such charges. But as becomes clear at the hearings, he doesn't have the direct knowledge to implicate Michael.

    There's no way of knowing what ultimately happens to him. He could be left alone because he's just not important enough, or he could be disposed of quietly after Pentangeli commits suicide.

     
  8. Jefferson Morris

    Jefferson Morris Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    5
    I would agree that Cicci, who was one of Pentangeli's lieutenants, cut a deal with the Feds for his testimony against Michael, after having been wounded and arrested during the attempt on Pentangeli's life.

    But here's another question I've heard raised: Why did Danny Aiello say "Michael Corleone says hello," when he garroted Pentangeli? Was this an attempt by Hyman Roth to turn Pentangeli against Michael? This only makes sense if the attempt was not intended to succeed.

    --Jefferson Morris
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
     
  10. Howard Williams

    Howard Williams Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2001
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, I' really gonna butcher the names and spelling here but please bare with me.

    My question is who actually ordered the hit on Pantangelese? You know, the older Mob boss that took over the Corleone's crime business in New York. He was having turf problems with the Sulotzo Brothers. Towards the end Michael says that says that the Sulotzo Brothers, backed by Hyman Roth took it upon them selves to kill Pantangelese but Pantangelese and the audience is lead to belieive that Michael ordered the hit because as the guy places the garrot around Pantangelese's neck he says, "Michael Corleone says hello" or something like that. Did Michael order the hit on Pantangelese in order to keep things smooth with Hyman Roth while waiting to discover who had order the hit on Michael?
    The fact that Michael threatened Pantangelese by bringing his brother from Sicily to the court hearing fosters the idea that he was behind it. He never tries to explain or deny anything to Pantangelese maybe cause he was so closely guarded or ? In the end it seems that even Pantangelese is convinced Michael did not order his execution because it doens't seem likely that Pantangelese would have taken the honorably way out if he felt Michael had truly ordered the hit on him. Any ideas?
     
  11. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    30,462
    Likes Received:
    5,748
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Howard,
    Hyman Roth approved the hit without Michael Corleone's buyin.

    Crawdaddy
     
  12. DaveSarcevic

    DaveSarcevic Agent

    Joined:
    May 28, 2000
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hyman Roth set up the hit to look like it was ordered by Michael Corleone. Hyman was pissed at Michael for backing out of the Cuba deal.
     
  13. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 1997
    Messages:
    10,451
    Likes Received:
    652
    Don't forget he also held a grudge about the killing of Moe Greene.
     
  14. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    4,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Roth ordered the hit on Pentangali and the hitman mentioned Michael's name which would prompt him to testify against the Corleone family in Congress. Remember that Fredo says that the Senate lawyer belongs to Roth. Michael then brings Pentangali's brother to the hearings to persuade him not to testify.
     
  15. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 1998
    Messages:
    7,585
    Likes Received:
    0
    To paraphrase Stripes...
    "Who cried when Pentangali gets the suicide speech from Michael? No one cried? I bawled my eyes out."
    [​IMG] (edit - save your corrections, I've already been bitch-slapped straight on this one[​IMG])
    Seriously, that always breaks my heart. A good "family" guy being tricked like that, unlike candy-ass Fredo. I couldn't wait for him to go on the boat ride.
    Pentangali needed Abe's "break for old time's sake".
     
  16. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
     
  17. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 1998
    Messages:
    7,585
    Likes Received:
    0
    Edit, where's the damn edit button....(panic).
    :b
    And it's such a great speech too. I hate me right now. [​IMG]
     
  18. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    You probably need a break, Seth. Too much posting, not enough movie viewing. I recommend a quick trip to New York. The city is very peaceful right now, and every new movie you're dying to see is playing in at least two theaters. [​IMG]
    M.
     
  19. Greg_Y

    Greg_Y Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 1999
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's an explanation from the Godfather Mailing List circa 1997:

     
  20. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    30,462
    Likes Received:
    5,748
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    The attempted hit on Pentangelli and what Danny Aiello said as far as "Michael Corleone says hello" is a take off from an excerpt from the book "The Godfather". I will spoiler tag the paraphrase excerpt.


    While the counterman in a small pizza parlor in Buffalo was laying on the floor after being shot twice in the chest. The gunman who shot him, extended his gun so that it was only a few inches from the counterman's skull and just before he pulled the trigger, the gunman said, "Fabrizzio, Michael Corleone sends you his regards."

    In case some of you forgot, Fabrizzio was the Sicilian bodyguard that planted the bomb that killed Michael's first wife, years earlier.


    Crawdaddy
     

Share This Page