Two Aragon 8008x3 (as monos) VS. 8008BB?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Ricky T, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To drive a pair of NHT 3.3 towers in stereo, how would two 8008x3 (one per speaker, therefore as monos) compare to one 8008BB? 2.0kVA vs 1.1kVA per speaker. How many watts in Class A into one speaker would I get from one 8008x3, with two open channels?

    The reason I ask is, if the 8008x3's don't lose anything in stereo, I get four extra channels for surround speakers.
     
  2. Tom Garvey

    Tom Garvey Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 1999
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry I can't answer your question Ricky.. just wanted to say WHAT'S UP? Long time no see!

    I had to sell all my equipment last year to pay a huge tax bill. Can you imagine no system for a year??? [​IMG]

    Anyway... it's nice to see a familiar face & you're still around.
     
  3. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If I recall correctly with the 8008X3, the first 25 watts is pure class A. The amp runs quite warm.

    BTW, this amp uses Mondial's design that allows more power to go to a particular channel as needed. It is not three completely separate amps in one chassis (triple mono?).
     
  4. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tom,

    Good to hear from you too! Hopefully you can rebuild a system soon. This is my first real itch to upgrade my system in a long time.

    Roger,

    I understand that the 8008x3 uses one 2.0kVA power transformer. However, if I hook up one 8008x3 to one front main speaker, and the 2nd 8008x3 to the other front speaker, wouldn't the amps be like monoblocks in stereo? With all other speakers inactive. No crosstalk and full draw (one transformer per speaker).
     
  5. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ricky, I can tell you how well a Sherbourn 5/1500A drives NHT VT2's biamped. [​IMG] Of course it is only 800va per speaker but that seems like more than enough.

    I am expecting you to try tubes on those 3.3's. Wouldn't that be class A all the way? LOL Of course you probably have already tried that!

    You are right about staying away from these forums, we get the upgrade virus too easily.
     
  6. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ricky,

    I couldn't confirm definitively the transformer rating in the 8008X3 but 2 kVa sounds about right. It is a massive transformer with very high current capacity. If you are using one amp per channel, then it would be similar to using mono amps. Obviously, no crosstalk since there will be completely separate chassis per speaker. I can't think of any commercially produced speaker that a dedicated 8008X3 could not drive (easily). However, if you are asking if the entire current capacity of the transformer could be utilized by a single channel if the the other two channels are idle, the answer is, I don't know. I don't know the topology of the amp and how the transformer interacts between the three channels. I'm not sure anyone but a Mondial engineer could tell you this with cetainty.

    On the other hand, if you do not already have these amps, if stereo music is your goal, then I would recommend a single 8008BB anyway (if you can find one). The 8008BB is simply a better amp and although it is dual mono with two 1.1kVa tranformers, there is nothing about the NHTs that the 8008BB would not drive without breaking a sweat.
     
  7. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Charles,

    I did have a Rogue tube preamp for over a year. Yep, the forums can be dangerous.


    Roger,

    I think both of these Aragon 8008s can really do 300 watts, all channels driven; thus, I am confident that two 8008x3's can drive my 6 NHTs as loud as I can stand.

    I am concerned about the first 25 watts (for 2 channel music)....and was wondering if two 8008x3's would in someway be inferior to one 8008BB in the first 25 watts.

    Also, would either amp be a clear sonic improvement over the Parasound 2200II (which has dual 1.2kVA)?
     
  8. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't answer about the Parasound as I have no experience with that amp. I know the higher-end Parasounds are highly regarded, but perhaps are a small step below the older high-end Aragons, at least by reputation. I will also add that in my experience, good quality amps of similar design and power ratings/current capacity will be very similar in performance.

    Indeed, I just replaced a Aragon 8008X3 with a lowered powered and much less expensive Rotel RMB-1075. The difference being, the Rotel is a 5-channel amp and I use it to bi-amp the left and right mains with the fifth channel for the center. I found a greater improvement in bi-amping than in the amp itself. Most people would probably consider the Rotel as a lower quality amp compared to the Aragon, but I can tell you that I now have a broader, more detailed soundstage (stereo) than i did using a single channel of the Aragon per speaker.
     
  9. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is interesting Roger. What speakers are you driving?
     
  10. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Rotel powers a pair of B&W Nautilus 804s and a HTM1 center channel speaker.

    B&W recommends bi-amping their speakers. Now I know why.
     
  11. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ricky, I keep hearing Aragon is a little bright and paired with NHT's (especially ones with metal tweets) it would seem a mismatch. But I see many NHT users like the ARagon/Bryson amp combos. You must have one dead room or rolled off hearing or both! LOL

    Have you checked out the ARagon amps over at audioadvisor? They have the 2002THX and the 3002THX amps. I guess these are not in the same build class as the Bryston made Aragons are they? I know you can and will do much better going used I was just curious if you had any experience with true Aragon made amps. Have you ever heard an Anthem PVA-7 amp? I know they are not that powerful but bi-amping with one would be interesting.
     
  12. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    The Aragon amps being discussed (not the newer models) are more neutral than anything else. They are also rather unforgiving. If one has a "bright" sounding speaker, the Aragon will not mitigate this characteristic, nor should it emphasize it. However, if one combines an amp like the Aragon with a fairly bright speaker, then plays a CD that may have the somewhat "metallic" edge that too many digital masterings have, well, you may find yourself wishing for something else.

    Personally, I don't think Aragon would be my first choice for the NHTs, just as it would not be my choice for the B&Ws having heard this combination for a while. But, I did not want to turn this into a recommendation as that is not what Ricky was asking for.
     
  13. John-Tompkins

    John-Tompkins Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    I cant speak to Aragon amps but as far as the Brystons go for me anyway, Bryston is the best combination Ive had yet with my nht 2.9's and now nht t5's..(after owning 30~40 mid level to high mid level amps)..The Brystons to my ears are the only amps that have stood out noticeable from all the rest. In other words I heard very small differences between the other amps but with Brystons I swear (some dont believe me[​IMG] ..that I could pick it out in a blind test 9 out of 10 times. The mid bass range is tighter and better defined then on the others Ive personally tried. I cant stand overly bright sound either and was worried about the brystons because a few reviews I read mentioned perceived brightness. I guess its in the ears of the beholder because I dont hear even a hint of brightness in the brystons, I do however have a dead room that has 2 inches of batting covered with velvet on all walls.

    Ive read many reviews on the Aragons and like you said Charles, there are lots of folks that say the Aragons matched with nhts are a match made in heaven...Id like to see Ricky give the Aragons a try and let us know how that combo stacks up to his parasound/nht combo.
     
  14. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Johnny T,

    30-40...thanks for reminding us that you are the biggest amp slut of them all [​IMG]

    Little change in plans..as I just made my first purchase in 18 months related to speakers, amps, or prepro...I picked up a single, used Aragon Palladium monoblock (the original). Since my system usage is mostly HT, about 95% of the time, I am listening to 5.1 (matrixed to 6.1 EX/ES) or DPL2. Thus, about 50-60% of the information in my system is playing through my center channel...hence the single Palladium and massive overkill!

    So far, my center speaker sounds super clear and has a hint of that old Rogue 66 magnum tube preamp sonics (perhaps the audiophile snob term is "liquidity).

    I have 7 NHT speakers (rear and rear centers are bookshelfs) and two passive subs. I am debating two amp scenarios (both around the same total cost):

    Scenario 1
    Palladium on center
    Aragon 8002 on left main and left side
    Aragon 8002 on right main and right side
    Citation 5.1 solid 100x4 to drive subs and rear centers

    The 8002s have the same circuitry and design as the bigger 8008s, and would be like monos in 2 channel.


    Scenario 2
    Palladium on center
    Aragon 8008BB on mains
    Acurus A200x5 on sides, subs, rear centers (both off one amp channel)

    Perhaps, the first option is better for HT, and the 2nd better for 2 channel?
     
  15. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    personally, i'd opt for scenario 2 as i'm a diehard aragon fan as well. i've owned the acurus 200five and the 8008bb. currently, i've found my nirvana with a pair of palladium ii monos driving my fronts and an 8008x3b driving the center and rears.

    kevin t
     
  16. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 1999
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kevin,

    I was wondering when you'd post in this Aragon thread [​IMG]

    Since the original Palladium is based on the 4004 series, the surround wrap might be better if I get a 4004mkII to drive my mains and a 2004mkII to drive my sides.
     
  17. SavoyR

    SavoyR Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Kevin T, I have THE 8008BB,ST & The X3 driving my M&K S150,s125 & ss150 speakers. I've thought of getting two Palladium for the front speakers replacing my 8008bb do you think they would make a big difference's over the 8008bb's ? and do you know if these amps match or exceed THX2 specs?
     
  18. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i'm not sure if they match / exceed thx2 specs. personally, i have a feeling they do but thx certification doesn't really mean squat to me. i replaced my 8008bb with the palladium ii monos. i got a really good deal on the palladiums (after selling the 8008bb, i only paid $1000 for the palladiums) so i had no qualms about upgrading. to be honest, the 8008bb seemed to be about 80% of what the palladium ii is. the palladium has a bit tighter bass and more clarity in the midrange. of course, that's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. i say, if you can get a good deal on the palladiums, then go for it. but if it's gonna be tight on your wallet, the benefit won't outweigh the cost.

    kevin t
     

Share This Page