Tweeter Replacement

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Chris Tsutsui, May 29, 2003.

  1. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey, I'm thinking of trying a new tweeter in a GR-research kit, AV-3 and AV-1 just for kicks. I have recently used the GR-Research crossovers with other drivers with success and was wondering if this would be the same.

    I just came across an aluminum dome tweeter by vifa which is on buy out #Part Number 269-370. link

    *Power handling: 100 watts RMS/140 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Znom: 6 ohms *Re: 4.6 ohms *Frequency range: 2,000-35,000 Hz *Fs: 850 Hz *SPL: 90 dB 2.83V/1m *Dimensions: A: 4-1/16", B: 2-7/8", C: 1-9/16".

    I am going to be using it as a direct replacement for the following GR-Research T1 soft dome Tweeter:

    *Frequency Range 1k - 20kHz
    Nominal Impedance 6 ohms
    Voice Coil Height 1.4 mm
    Voice Coil Diameter 25.4 mm
    Coil Layers 2
    DC Resistance 5.4 ohms
    Free Air Resonance 1075 Hz
    Nominal Power 75 watts
    Sesitivity 90db

    The sensitivity, and impedance are almost equal with the FS at 850 instead of 1075. Seems that I wouldn't need to do any adjustments to the network, do you agree?

    It seems like a beefy "commercial" metal dome that might be able to give me some brighter highs that i'm looking for. Reason why I'm shopping for a new tweeter is because I fried the VCs of my tweeters and ordered replacements. During the time of waiting for the replacements I tried other tweeters and found that it changed the way the speaker sounded. (for Better and for worse).

    Any comments before I order? I know that it may not fix exactly, but that can be solved.
     
  2. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If its brighter highs you want, there is a less drastic tweak than substituting tweeters. If the crossover has a resister in series with the tweeter, try droping that 30%. Or, if there is a shunt resister across the tweeter, you can raise that value. Danny could confirm if you have these voicing options.
     
  3. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah that sounds like a good idea because there IS a resistor that I could adjust, but I was actually building a pair of 2-ways for my car as a separate project so I was going to use the Vifa tweets in my car if it didn't work out the way as planned.

    If you guys think the tweeter will completely change the speaker's sound I could just order some of those Dayton or Mills resistors for some tweaking.

    That would mean I can design the car's 2-way from scratch and not have to be stuck with the Vifa Harman Tweeter.
     
  4. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  5. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I guess I'll be doing some research and rebuilding the crossover thens. But I AM going to try out Dannys network just to see how it will sound in my car's 2-ways using the Vifa and m16. [​IMG]

    Afterall, I'll have a pair of AV-1s to play with now that my friend wants me to build him a pair.

    I have another question, If I was to substitute a perfect layer inductor instead of a foil air core inductor, would that have a significant affect on the sound? Given that the gauge, mh, and DCR numbers are the same. Is there another deciding "factor" in an inductor that decides how it sounds?
     
  6. Jonathan_D

    Jonathan_D Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ah, what a can of worms. [​IMG] Some (Danny included) will argue vociferously about the audible distinctions in "high quality" (read "expensive") crossover components, including the virtues of foil vs. wire inductors. Others (Rod Elliot, for example) will argue just as vociferously the opposite. My take is that if there is an audible difference, it is due to other factors (variance in resistance and inductance) and not whether its foil or wire. Ultimately, the only real way to tell is to get components of each type, measure them until you find a pair that are electrically identical (or as close as possible) and then do a blind listening test.

    It is certainly possible, I suppose, that some people could hear the differences in "identical" inductors or capacitors from different manufacturing runs. Tolerances are generally given at +-5%, and sometimes even +-10%. You get two components, one at the high end and one at the low end, and you can have "identical" components that vary anywhere from 10% to 20%. That is probably the source of audibility more than anything else.

    Of course, beyond the question of mere "audibility" in the difference is whether one sounds "better" than another. "Better" is far more subjective and far more difficult to test for. I am loathe to spend my money on opinions not based on double blind testing and am not sure that my hearing, let alone my listening skills, is good enough to warrant it. But your mileage may vary!
     
  7. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That sounds like a good idea too, inductors arn't that much money. People don't post cap or inductor comparisons, so I guess I have to use my own ears and measurements to make conclusions.
     
  8. Jonathan_D

    Jonathan_D Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. Danny Richie

    Danny Richie Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2002
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dang, I have to agree with Thomas again. He hit the nail on the head.

    As for adjusting the resistor in the circuit to elevate the highs to your liking, well that is certainly an option.

    The network is designed to produce a smooth and even response from one end to the other.

    There are those that like the highs tipped up a bit, and there is nothing wrong with liking it that way if that is your cup of tea.

    It does not or will not increase detail level in the highs but it will give that impression, just due to the elevated level.

    And Chris, when you buy as many kits from me as you do I will be glad to send you out a few different value resistors for you to play with for free (in the Links resistors).

    I also stock the Mills resistors. They are a little better sounding than the Links resistors but are a lot more expensive in comparison, but then again $3.90 for a resistor isn't much money. The A/V-1 only uses one of them.

    As for inductors; I have performed many side by side comparisons. My opinion is that the foil inductors do create more of an airy open sound and I think the foil sounds better.

    It is not a huge difference, but it is a difference. Is it worth it? I think so. Others will disagree. It is subjective of coarse.

    I have found much greater differences in caps.
     
  10. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I too have found a great change in a speaker with different capacitors.

    In your AV-3 model, I can directly compare the AV-3 to the AV-3 with sonicaps because I have 2 pairs in possession.

    The Sonicaps AV-3 Did have new tweeters, but I tried to break them in for several hours playing white noise to make the comparison as close as possible.

    Here's the difference: The Sonicaps produce female vocals a lot better than the regular caps. It sounds smoother, and less grainy yet with the same amount of noticeable detail. The signal seems to have less distortion, and by that I mean it having less "hiss" during the production of sound.

    Upon measuring, I did notice a drop in volume of close to 1db, but I think that could have been caused by the speakers not being broken in 100%, i'm not sure. If that's the case, then the smooth sound could be the speakers not being broken in and just not revealing 100% of the detailed distortion in the tracks. Either way, the speakers presented us with an immediately noticeable difference in the way they sounded. SO far, we much enjoy the SONICAPS version.

    As for caps, I'm a believer in them and my friend is as well. I am in the process of making another estimate for a client and may be soon ordering three pairs of AV-1s, and 5 AV-1+ speakers if he likes it and we get the job.

    Thanks for the replies guys.
     

Share This Page